Click here to register on OneGuyFromBarlick|2|1
Previous Page    [1]  2   Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2006  :  22:52

The more I studied and thought about the ratio between Manufacturing and Service Industry employees the more it drew me this conclusion.

That conclusion is this. The service industry cannot survive in an area where there is little or no manufacturing industry. It is manufacturing industry that creates the wealth to support the service industry.

One only has to look at the old Lancashire mill towns, who have not developed new industries. All the evidence is there, boarded up shops, dilapidated buildings, men and women on the dole, etc etc.

The aftermath of coal mine closures in the mining towns of West Yorkshire, after the 1984 miners strike, made ghost towns out of once prosperous communities.. Yes one can argue that there are large shopping malls in the big and prosperous towns. Unfortunately, what was lost, was, and is the community spirit. 

These are just two samples of lost industry and communities. These two samples are from the North of England, the further North one goes especially into Scotland and the Nort East of England one can see the ravages caused by the loss of industry. 

In 2005 no-one can have failed to see the demise of Rover motor cars. This is in the Industrial Heartland of the Midlands. It appears to me that Politicians only seem to wake up when the  lid is being nailed on the coffin of local industries, and the fear of further unemployment in their constituencies makes them take notice.

Like we have said before always "too little too late".

 




Replies
Author
Previous Page    [1]  2   Next Page
 
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 08:29

Here's something I wrote in 2002.

DIRTY WORK


I see that a recent survey has raised the spectre of us being short of skilled manual workers and the most likely cause is that ‘young people don’t like to get their hands dirty’. There is a connection here with my recent comments on bath night. Levels of dirt and discomfort which, 100 years ago would have been seen as quite acceptable are no longer tolerated and yet, we haven’t abolished dirt.

The TV programmers did some interesting programmes on this subject, they looked at workers who have to deal with sewers, filthy premises, rodent control and infestation with cockroaches etc. The common thread that ran through all the examples they gave was that the people who deal with the nastiest messes we leave behind us always get paid the least. It was ever the same.

In my time I’ve had to clean up after animals, deal with slaughterhouse waste, open blocked drains and even at one point managed the sewage treatment plant at West Marton Dairies for a short while. Now there was an interesting job! It was a mystery to me why, with exactly the same management, the outflow from the plant was clear as gin one day and raw effluent the next. You can take it from one who has done it that waste management is a science!

It isn’t only the public service industries that deal with dirt. 100 years ago, every manual job in Barlick was, by today’s standards, a dirty job. Weavers came home with their hair full of ‘fly’ or as my mother used to call it ‘dirt down’. One of her favourite expressions about me was ‘you’re worse than dirt down!’. Funnily enough, my dad being an Australian, his version was ‘you’re worse than the flies’. The point is that the experience was common enough to enter into the language.

My picture this week is of ‘Paraffin’ Jack Grayson loomsweeping at Bancroft in the 1970s. He spent his day crawling about on the floor in the weaving shed amongst all the moving machinery sweeping and oiling looms. He had the worst paid job in the mill but, paradoxically, one of the most important. The firebeater in the boiler house was in the same boat. Try as you may, you can’t deal with coal and ashes all day without getting dirty. These weren’t occasional jobs, they were the normal everyday experience.

These jobs still exist in one form or the other, the biggest difference is that most dirty industries have better facilities for cleaning up before you go home and so what was a common sight as little as fifty years ago, people walking down the street in their muck after work, has gone underground. This might be part of the problem, young people grow up being told to keep themselves clean and don’t have the evidence that a different set of rules applies in the real world of work, you can get as dirty as you like! So is it any wonder that they recoil from dirt when looking for a job.

There is another facet of this that worries me. I make it my business to ask young people how much they know about the infrastructure that makes their lives possible and the level of ignorance can be astounding. Take the simple action of turning an electric light switch on when entering a room. You would be amazed at the number of people that haven’t a clue where the electricity comes from or what has to be done to keep it flowing. All they know is that it has to be paid for. Even in a relatively clean industry like the generation of electricity there are numerous dirty and even dangerous jobs that have to be done to make it work. Have you ever seen pylon painters at work? The nature of the job is such that they can’t avoid getting covered with paint. They have to have new overalls every day and cover all exposed skin with Vaseline so the paint won’t stick to them. Take it from me, it’s a horrible job.

Ninety percent of all electricity is still made by steam produced in boilers burning coal, oil or natural gas. The furnaces have to be maintained and no matter how clean the fuel, this is a dirty job. Maintaining the cooling systems in the power station is another dirty task. Even the skilled fitters who work on the generating machinery get their share of dirt. It can’t be avoided.

I could bore you for hours with examples like these but what I’d really like to get down to is who does these jobs for us?

The answer to this comes down to how highly paid they are. As a general rule, unless there is someone who has been brought up in the trade, the low paid unskilled jobs are done by recent migrants and poor people. Look at hospital and office cleaners, unskilled foundry workers and anyone doing jobs that involve unsocial hours. This might be the root of the problem.

Fifty years ago getting dirty at work wasn’t seen as demeaning. I’m afraid this has changed in this country. There is a loss of status in being dirty. It’s only the natural rebels who go against this. I know a bloke in Australia who, when he first migrated there, got an office job. He gave it up because he wanted to go home dirty at night so that people would know he had a ‘proper’ job. I can identify with that because that’s how I was brought up, there was no shame in ‘honest muck’. We seem to be losing that distinction.

It may be hard for the younger ones to accept some of this week’s opinions. Just ask yourself the question, who cleans the lavatory in your house? Does it make them a lesser person? Of course not, it’s all part of real life and as far as I’m concerned, the people who do the mucky jobs are the heroes. Can we please not look down on them.

SCG/25 August 2002
1017 words.

I've recounted many times how we used to go and wander round the loco sheds at Heaton Mersey or watch iron being poured in Hollindrake's Foundry on the main street in Stockport.  Is it any wonder that we all grew up wanting to be engine drivers or engineers.  This is a closed world to our kids and the careers advisors aren't manual workers, they don't understand the joy of actually making things.




Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Gloria
Senior Member


3581 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 08:36
Wow, Stanley, another interesting read, and I agree with the whole of it.


I'd be dangerous with a brain!!!!!
www.briercliffesociety.co.uk Go to Top of Page
gus
Regular Member


704 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 08:57
spot on ,Stanley, i worked as a coalman, and as a foundryman, some forty odd years ago, at least we had the luxury of a shower at the foundry but, give it an hour later and the muck was still coming out of the pores, nope they don`t know they are born to-day...


Gus

http://www.flickr.com/photos/angusbrennan/
Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 12:02
A bloke once asked me how I put up with being covered with cow muck every day.  he couldn't understand that it was simply part oif the job and no problem.  The kids used to like the smell of me when I came home at night, a mixture of tobacco, cows and oil.  The muck I didn't like was the sort that hurt you, gritty, sticky powder sifting out of bags of sugar beet pulp that got down your neck hole and was with you all day was a bad one, it could rub your back raw.  Once you got Manganesite on your fingers there was no such thing as washing it out, it had to grow out.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
gus
Regular Member


704 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 12:32
makes me laugh Stanley, the old saying "were theres muck theres money" if that was the case i`d be loaded, and a lot more of us.. of course the saying must have been coined by some mill,foundry, or mine owner..


Gus

http://www.flickr.com/photos/angusbrennan/
Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 12:57

Rest assured Stanley, Deadly still comes home as black as soot, literally. I used to love the smell of the working men I knew as a child, as you say, it was tobbacco, grease, soil, string, tea, and copper coins, all mixed into one! Not only do kids today look down on getting their hands dirty, they don't realise the joy that comes from getting stuck in.

Gus, is that a poshed up version of 'where there's muck there's brass?'




Life is what you make itGo to Top of Page
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 13:45

Stanley. I didnt quite get the connection between the header posting and your response. The point I was attempting to make was that the U.K. over the last 30 years has really lost a good proportion of its traditional manufacturing industry.

Shipbuilding, Steelworks, Coal Mining, Textiles, Clothing, Automobile, Electronics, etc etc.

I can see the point you make about people not wanting to get dirty at work, (if indeed this is true). However, as you made the point in your posting most modern employers do have good clean-up facilities.

It is easy to say that the UK lost its manufacturing base, to stiff market competition, first from the Eastern Bloc and then eventually from the far East. If one looks at the inferior quality of the products manufactured by these countries, it dosnt take long to come to a conclusion.

The demise in British industry was partly created by the British themselves. This was brought about by British consumerism.

An example of this would be in the early eighties when cheap clothing imports were being brought into the uk from countries such as Romania. A housewife/mother shopping for clothes could compare the cost of British manufactured goods to imported goods. They opted for the imported goods not because of quality but because of cheapness.

That same principle applies more or less today, pure economics. The question that arises is,  is it good economics?

Yes, you would pay more for British manufactured goods, but how much longer would they last you?



Edited by - Invernahaille on 15 November 2006 13:53:30


Go to Top of Page
TOM PHILLIPS
Steeplejerk


4164 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 14:36

I think its just the "Greed factor" Robert,its what every salesman/woman uses to sell things because they know people want as much as they can get for their money,even if they're not very honest when explaining what you get,ie. quality and value for money,some British named products are now made abroad because its cheaper and still claim to be "made in britain",so as you say "its our own fault".

The dirty work subject is also very true,well it is in the construction industry,which is very strong at the moment,less and less young people are applying for construction work every year so maybe this industry will go the same way as manufacturing,and it will also be our fault,it happened in Germany not long ago ,when all us Brits. went over there,because they didnt have the manpower...




"Work,the curse of the drinking class" Go to Top of Page
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 16:26

I think Germany's problem was that they had a massive building expansion. They didnt or wouldnt train their own people, because they didnt want  overmanning in the construction industry when the expansion was completed. That way they could keep reasonable levels of construction employment after the boom.

Never the less, there is no doubt that the construction industry, is a hard industry to be employed in. The British weather alone is the construction industries biggest enemy.

Here in the States, they lay most major constuction workers off over the winter period. They make good money in the summer and collect unemployment over the winter. It's sort of feast or famine, but on balance it seems to work out. Most construction workers are glad to get the rest time as they work 12-14 hour days 7 days a week from the beginning of March till the end of November.




Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 17:33
Robert, the connection is that manufacturing jobs are seen as dirty.  They all want to be traders in the city driving flash cars.  Look at the number of hard-nosed chemistry and physics departments that are closing in our universities.  Plenty of connection, you can't run value adding industries without mucky jobs.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 18:50

I see what you mean Stanley. From what I saw of the younger generation in Milnrow on my last visit there, I saw a small percentage of young people with degrees that they couldnt use for any practical purpose in any industry. I took the academic view that although some of the degrees they held were pretty abstract, at least it informed me they could learn. It was just a pity that there wasnt some kind of career guidance given on the practicality of the degrees they had undertaken.

The others I think took Phil Grocotts view that the world stopped at some point in their lives and they got off.

The thing about manufacturing Industry was that it caught the academic failures, I include myself amongst these. The apprenticeship system gave me academic skills that I had not been given at school. Give me an apprentice trained engineer anyday. They have a basic logic that cannot be taught.

Industry needs managers and leaders. Ok you may get dirty for a few years, but good management would or at least should recognise potential and reward it accordingly.

Thats the system I came through.




Go to Top of Page
TOM PHILLIPS
Steeplejerk


4164 Posts
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 19:16

Managers tend to come straight from college or uni. these days,call me old fashioned but i wouldnt expect anyone to do something i couldnt do myself.

Degrees appear to be like to old BT advert,"if you have an ology your a scientist"?




"Work,the curse of the drinking class" Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 16/11/2006 : 06:36
I agree Tom.  Of course we are probably looking at the problem the wrong way round.  Someone once asked me what my steam engine qualifications were, I told them Bancroft, Ellenroad and Whitelees.  They didn't understand.  The point being of course the same as Robert's about apprentices, the real teacher is experience and actually doing the job.  As my dad always said, if someone can put it together, you can take it apart.  Wonderful what you learn that way.  I've always said the best way to learn about construction is to demolish something, you learn all the techniques and see the mistakes as well.  So, decline in manufacturing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, the less there is, the less chance of gaining experience.  Flies completely in the face of Monetary Theory and the concept that the market will always find the correct level.  Another problem is the modern tendency to de-skill tasks by breaking them down to their individual components.  In the old days a Gardner engine was made by a fitter in a small enclosure with all his tools and a stillage full of parts, he then followed the engine to the test beds for final adjustments and running the fuel curves.  Gardners used to have complete records for every engine they made including the test bed results and the name of the fitter.  The engines were expensive but Gardner was a by-word for economy and longevity.  A Gardner apprentice could get a job anywhere.......


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 16/11/2006 : 12:40

Stanley. I like what you said about de-skilling. Some time ago I asked a junior engineer (thats an engineer just out of his apprenticeship, getting his sea time in before taking coast guard agency exams) about scraping (a manual bedding technique used in machine tools etc). His response was that he had never heard of it, and surely some machine can do it at a fraction of the cost.

De-skilling was a concept of a principle called Modern Scientific Management. I have worked in management both as a manager and a consultant for several years now. I have seen nothing modern about it, it still has all the old problems (and always will do, times change people dont) Its only claim to science is that it uses numbers to manage, Management is just a synonym for dealing with the next crises.

I remember when I was attending a management course. We had all the experts teaching us management techniques. At the very end a little man came in to lecture us about management. He just said " good morning gentlemen, Good Management is common sense and walked out. I remember that so well, and the truth is he was absolutely right.




Go to Top of Page
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 16/11/2006 : 13:07

A lighthearted expose of Modern Scientific Management.

A new manager was appointed for a project in Africa. The object of the exercise was to drain a swamp, using the most up to date and scientific management techniques, several months went by and his superiors enquired about his progress. He informed them that the project was running approx two months late. The response from his superiors was that he had been given every conceivable management tool and aid available, so what was his explanation for being late on the contract.

His response went something like this: I appreciate the assistance the company has given me on this project, but somehow it's hard to remember that the object of the exercise is to drain the swamp, when you're up to your arse in crocodiles....




Go to Top of Page
Topic is 2 Pages Long:
Previous Page    [1]  2   Next Page
 


Set us as your default homepage Bookmark us Privacy   Copyright © 2004-2011 www.oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk All Rights Reserved. Design by: Frost SkyPortal.net Go To Top Of Page

Page load time - 0.547