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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  28/04/2011  :  07:37
Political comment is a high risk activity on the site these days so I thought I'd try again to give those who are interested in politics a safe haven!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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panbiker
Senior Member


2300 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 10:39
I have never been able to understand why people don't vote. You do not need a degree in politics or to be heavily involved with any political party to engage from time to time. All you need is the intelligence to understand what is happening around you and a handle on the issues that affect you and your familiy. It is not complicated and I suppose this is why it makes me so angry that people just can't be bothered.

As an active politacal campaigner in the past I know for a fact that when I was involved in local affairs a lot of the folk with the most vociferous opinions and some with all the answers were the ones who never voted. It's easy enough to tell, you just look at the marked up registers. Something that we always did during the post mortem phase when the registers became available, it helped you to target your canvass effort the next time round.

I suppose an ideal situation would be if people did not vote, they should be struck dumb!  With current turnouts the country would be a very quiet place indeed.

I shall be making my marks tonight. I will vote in all the ballots and abstain from none. I will vote because I have knowledge of the hardships and the struggles that folk who have gone before me have had to endure in securing the vote for everyone. I will vote because I think it is important to stand up and be counted from time to time and I will vote because I have an opinion on various issues and this is my opportunity to do something about it.


Ian Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 11:18
Well said Ian, it is a free gift and should be used, we should also spare a thought for those who are told how to use it.


thomo Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 12:23
Voted at 8 am this morning in all 3  ballots !!! and I agree 100% with Ian's post.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 13:39


quote:
thomo wrote:
Well said Ian, it is a free gift and should be used, we should also spare a thought for those who are told how to use it.

A free gift is it? 

I certainly costs me a packet every month.

Although I must concede that I got a notification the other day that said, in effect, that the amount they were now going to take off me would leave me with 12p per day  extra. Now there's a novelty ! One tank full of diesel in the year... providing it does not go up anymore.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob


3044 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 16:07
quote:
Stanley wrote:
Heather, the only item I disagree with is whether to vote for AV or not. I think you're quite right that it is a flawed system but like Ted I decided to vote yes because at least I will have put a marker down for change.
I did waver, but decided that as an experiment it would be a very, very expensive one. Unless AV was definitely going to change things for the better, I would rather see the millions of pounds spent setting up and administering it allocated to more important things, like saving lives in the NHS or keeping a few more police officers. And think of the money spent reverting to FPTP when it's decided after a while that AV isn't the answer. 

If Australia isn't happy with the system, why would Britain be?

It's easy for us to make quick Yes/No decisions by wielding a pencil in a polling booth, but the amount of money involved (simply to appease Clegg and make it look like the LibDems had actually achieved something) is phenomenal.

I prefer to register my protest in a much cheaper way - I'd quite fancy chucking rotten eggs and tomatoes at politicians as they enter the Houses of Parliament, but I'm a hopeless shot...

Well, I guess we'll soon know the outcome - although I understand they aren't even going to start counting the AV votes till 4pm tomorrow.

Edited by - Callunna on 05/05/2011 4:10:29 PM


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Anni
Regular Member


634 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 16:54
I reached the same conclusion as Callunna - I would rather the money be spent elsewhere - not that I am naive enough to believe it will be Wink

Didn't have much of a choice when it came to the councillors - only the two big parties were standing.  Talk about rock and a hard place.

I had thought about not voting, but am too aware of the people who fought that I had a vote and the freedom to use it.  

Anyway, I still believe - don't vote, can't moan Laughing


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Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 21:05
We have both been and made our mark...


Big Kev

It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. Go to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 00:09
The issue concerning  the cost of changing the system has been  a  "red herring".......


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 05:56
What a nice parcel of balanced and reasonable opinion! Lovely. The only things I would mildly disagree with are that I don't believe the vote is free, tremendous sacrifices were made to get us the vote and the main reason I vote is that if I didn't I would be letting all those good men and women down. The other thing is the question of cost of a change in the voting system. I don't think anyone is certain about this.

I too voted in all three ballots, the only one I had slightly more difficulty was the Town Council, as Heather pointed out yesterday, there was no labour candidate. However, Stephen Demaine was an acceptable substitute for me, he's nobody's fool and I think he'd make an effective member.

As for the wider scene this morning, it's all looking a bit patchy and we need more results. Only thing that is clear at the moment is that Alec Salmond of the SNP is the happiest and Nick Clegg is the man with the most worries. I notice that Paddy Pantsdown was busy writing his verdict for the Guardian before voting had finished. He is stirring it up saying that from now on the ConDem coalition is going to be less of a love-in in the rose garden and more a gritty business relationship.

My quote of the morning was Alec Salmond commenting on the tour that Ed Balls did round eight Labour seats. He said that sending one of the chief architects of the financial melt-down to Scotland to advise on how the economy should be run was an own goal, All eight seats were lost!  Sounds like fair comment to me!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 08:31
He said that sending one of the chief architects of the financial melt-down to Scotland to advise on how the economy should be run was an own goal, All eight seats were lost!  Sounds like fair comment to me!

Like Ecks Arc of Prosperity, Iceland and Ireland etc !!! Titans of Politics
Scottish politics have shifted  overnight. It looks like Independence will become a top agenda issue which will be Stoked by Eck snapping at the Westminster Goverment. (and them biting back)
We have Free Prescriptions, Freeish Old Age Health Care, and a 5 year Freeze on Council Tax, oh and Free Tuition Fees for University.
How long before the Barnett Formual comes under Stress ??
Looks like England is also split again North & South mmm Interesting times ahead.

ps Don't think anyone saw this coming when Devolution was passed ? Devolution was supposed to Halt the SNP bandwagon !!!

Edited by - frankwilk on 06/05/2011 09:12:28 AM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 09:14
So what is your point Brad?  Is the change free? My opinion is that the entire AV question is a bucket of red herrings and totally ridiculous, but that is only my opinion and the vote will show that some (a minority) will think otherwise, I think that the tone of the topic has been that given the right you should vote, rather than how to vote.

By the way as follow up to another topic Brad I have been paying £2 to £2.80 for pints and as low as £2 for shots.

Monday past was general election day in Canada, after 3 minority governments we ended up with a conservative majority.  The Liberals lost badly, including the leader.  The left of centre NDP gained all of the Liberal losses and the Bloc Quebecois (separatist) was decimated.  Other than the outcome what really burned me was that I had to go on line to get results or even any mention of the election, either the wedding ot Osama weremore important.


HERB


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 09:21
I am well aware of what the vote may have cost in the past, this however is now and my point is that it does not have to be paid for in cash. Nor do I think that local elections should be used to generate a political statement ie, used as a barometer to test the mood of the electorate.


thomo Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 09:21
Herb our media do tend to lump you in with your neighbour !!! if nothing is happening there you do get missed. We do note however how supportive the Canadians are for Royalty.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 10:55


quote:
Callunna wrote: I don't want millions of pounds thrown at setting it up which could be spent on more important things. Herb , this is what I was referring to.....

My view is that we really need a change , and AV would be a small step in the right direction. The cost of changing would be relatively small ,in the scheme of things ,but has no doubt been over-egged by the "No" supporters , in what ,by all accounts , has been a dirty campaign.


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob


3044 Posts
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 11:57
I always think that if you're going to do something, do it right first time. 

The UK doesn't have an unlimited money supply and whatever the cost - be it £1m or £1bn, who knows? - the money can be better used elsewhere right now.

Change the voting system by all means, but such a radical event shouldn't be bunged in at the last minute* as an appeasement gesture. We deserve a better deal than one which is the result of political horse trading.

Why swap one flawed system for another? 

* I say last minute because until we started getting election bumph through the letterbox I, and I believe many others, were blissfully ignorant that AV even existed, let alone that it there was to be a referendum on it...


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