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sealrescuehorne
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22 Posts
Posted -  28/01/2009  :  17:08
Hi

I have quite a lot of information on the Sagars in Barnoldswick in 1800s but have come across a family line that I know nothing about.  Does anyone out there now of ERIC Sagar b 1910 (his middle name was BRUNSKILL) according to my source his parents were JOHN SAGAR b @ 1890 and JANE BRUNSKILL B 1890 Sedburgh.  I found a marriage on Free BDM for Jane Brunskill in 1909 Keighley but when I look for John Sagar marriage to Jane nothing comes up.  I believe JOHN's siblings are EDGAR  b 1881, ALICE b 1883 and IDA CONSTANCE b 1895 (she became an opera singer).  As usual with the Sagars I am going round and round in circles.  Any help would be great

Sue


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jill harwood
Regular Member


74 Posts
Posted - 28/01/2009 : 21:08
The 1911 census has an Eric Bramhill Sagar (mistranscription?) in Skipton district of the right age.


Jill Harwood- Researching the Atkinson, Abbott & Broughton families in Barlick and beyond. Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 06:40
Have look at 'Rock Solid' in Stanley's View. Lots in there about Sagars the quarry owners and I seem to remember a mantion of one of the daughters being a singer. Good read anyway......


Stanley Challenger Graham




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wendyf
Senior Member


1439 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 08:13
Hi Sue,  I've found this in the Thornton in Craven baptism records.

25/12/1910    Eric Brinskill Sagar, son of Harry & Jane Sagar, quarry owner, The Gables, Barnoldswick. b16/12/1909.

In the marriage records:-

7/06/1904   Harry Sagar, 25, bchr., stonemerchant of Salterforth (son of John Sagar, stonemerchant) and Jane Edmondson, 22, daughter of John Edmondson, butcher of Earby.

Wendy


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gus
Regular Member


704 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 08:54
Brian Sagar, who now lives in a park home, at park close quarries, has a lot of information about his family tree, being a direct decendent, of all the above 


Gus

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gus
Regular Member


704 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 08:59
Brian and Alan Sagar front left


Gus

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gus
Regular Member


704 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 09:01
The above photo shows Brian Sagar, and Alan Sagar (son) first two on the left front.


Gus

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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 30/01/2009 : 07:52
I'd forgotten Brian..... I've forgotten his wife's name, lovely woman and much missed, she was taken far too early.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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gus
Regular Member


704 Posts
Posted - 31/01/2009 : 11:17
 Stanley ,Brians, wife was Shirley,yes she was a lovely woman, who worked hard all her life, and sadly as you say, "taken far to early"


Gus

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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 07:20
That's it, Shirley, always a joy to talk to her, you immediately felt better.

I've remembered I have some Sagar stuff, I shall retreat into the bowels of me archive.....


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 07:27

SAGAR INDEX ENTRIES AS OF 31 October 2005

1822.

Baines’ directory for 1822 and 1823 lists James Sagar as being a blacksmith in Barnoldswick.

1841

Census notes Oates Sagar, 30, farmer, at Higher Greenhill Farm, Salterforth.  Wife Ann, 30.  William, 8. Samuel, 6.  John, 4.  Henry, 1 year.

1844

Richard Hartley Sagar mentioned in an electoral roll as having a share in Brogden Farm Barnoldswick.  Address given as Kirkstall, Leeds. Same entry in 1837 and 1841.

1848.

Oates Sagar noted as being an elector of Salterforth in 1848.  Address given as Higher Greenhill.

1851

Census records Oates Sagar being at Higher Greenhill Farm, 40 years, farmer of 62 acres born Foulridge.  Ann, wife, 40 born Thornton.  William, 18.  Samuel 16.  John, 14.  Henry 11.  Robinson, 7.  Mary Ann, 6.  Ellen, 2.  All born Salterforth.

1861

Census records Richard Sagar, 41 years, of Bank House, Bradley, Great Marsden as cotton spinner and manufacturer.  Same census reports Richard Sagar, 48 years, of Heyroyd, Colne as cotton spinner employing 63 hands.  Again, Stephen Sagar, 22 years, Cotton manufacturer of Hollin Field, Trawden.  Born Catlow, Marsden.

1869/1879

Barrett directory notes Henry Sagar as quarry owner at Wilk’s Delph, Foulridge in 1979.  Same entry in Slater’s directory for 1869, 1871 and 1879.

1887

Barrett directory notes Mrs Sarah Sagar as being a china and earthenware dealer at 6 Church Street Barnoldswick.

1890

Local Board election notes William Sagar as quarry owner of Bancrofts.

1896.

In the yard below King Street there are two date stones inserted in the wall, they were saved during the demolition of the buildings that used to be there.  One reads ‘Ivory Hall. 1899.’ The other ‘Sagar’s Chambers. 1896.’

1896

Barrett directory notes William Sagar as stone merchant of Tubber Hill Quarries.  House, Granville terrace.

1899

LTP. 78/ABB/01.  Billy Brooks describes Bill Sagar as being an old man in 1899 and as ‘him who built the houses’  in Albert Road.  He also said that Billy Sagar built both the Ivory Hall and Sagar’s Chambers in Brook Street.  They were demolished in 1982.

Undated reference.

Edgar Sagar was the son of John Sagar of Bleak House on Holt Lane.  He lived at Eastcliffe on Tubber Hill which was built for him by John Sagar.

Undated reference.

From Annals of Barrowford by Jess Blakey.  Mentions ‘Sagars’ as having built Throstle Nest Mill in Nelson and having bought the malt kiln (later a confectionery works known as the Spice Shop) on the left hand side of the road above Higherford Bridge facing up the hill.

1902.

Barrett dir. Notes John Sagar as farming Higher Park Farm, Barnoldswick.

1902

Barrett directory notes William Sagar as builder and stone merchant at 1 Park Road, Barnoldswick. 

1910

John Sagar started business as a cotton manufacturer in the newly built Bankfield No. 2 shed.  Applied for space at Wellhouse in 1913.  I think it was the same John Sagar noted in Barrett 1902 directory as contractor, quarry owner and stone sawing mill at Salterforth.  Billy Brooks said that John started the business at Bankfield but his son Sidney actually managed it.  He also said that the quarry business ended when there was a claim against them for silicosis, they weren’t insured and so they couldn’t pay and the quarries closed.  Sidney Sagar lived on Park Road.

1914/18

LTP. 78/AK/03.  Emma Clark talks about living on Ribblesdale Terrace on Gisburn Road after 1900.  The family in the house next door was the Sagars and Frank, the son, died in WW1.  They had three sons in the army and Frank was the middle one.

c.1920

LTP.  78/AB/01.  Billy Brooks mentions Bill Sagar as an old worthy of Barlick.  He also says that Bill was the builder of Albert Road cottages along with Joe Standing and Proctor Barrett.

c.1920

LTP.  79/AO/02.  Jack Platt recalls John Sagar (quarry owner) as having two canal boats, called Ida and Alice after his daughters.  They were used to carry stone setts to Burnley.  The boatmen, were Hartley Barrett and Oates Barrett and lived at Foulridge.  Oats’ son Walton Barrett was still in the haulage trade in 1979.  On the same tape he gives a lot of information about Sagar’s quarries and the men and horses.  On 79/AO/01 he tells about stealing the detonators from the quarry and blowing half his hand off.  In 1921 he went to work at Loose Games for Sagar.

c. 1920/30

LTP. 82/HD/03.  Harold Duxbury talks about the ownership and working of quarries on Tubber hill and Salterforth Drag.  He says it was high quality stone with no bed and that the Sagar family leased Loose Games and Salterforth quarries off the Roundell estate at Gledstone.  Park Close Quarry on Salterforth Drag was not Roundells.  It was included in the Bracewell Sale of 1887.  Whitham and a partner took this quarry but the partner failed.  Whitham sold his pork butcher‘s shop on Church Street and worked the quarry.  He lived on Salterforth Drag

1929.

CH 09/08/1929.  Report in a BUDC meeting that John Sagar and son had applied for permission to use the as yet unfinished New Road to cart tramway lines at present laid at Higher Park Farm (Part of the system used to bring stone from Salterforth Quarry down to Park Bridge Wharf on the canal) to Earby Station.  It looks as though this was the end of the tramway and canal transport.

c.1930

Fred Inman told me a story about Salterforth Quarry and John Sagar.  A cousin of his father (Parkinson Inman) worked there and he told his dad about John Sagar accusing him of using his bull terrier as a watchdog at the quarry to warn him when John was coming round.  He said that either the dog stayed at home or they could both stay there.  The cousin refused so John sacked him.  John was right, the dog used to whimper when JS was coming.

C. 1930/1940

In 2002, Shirley Oldfield, (nee Alderson) told me that she used to live at Tubber Hall with her father, Thomas Alderson, until1947 when he died.  They kept pigs and Shirley said that Tubber Hall was originally a squatter’s house.  It was owned (leased from Gledstone?) by the Sagars, she talked about the Sagar sisters and said one was an opera singer (Alice?).  Ida used to collect the rent.

c.1930

James Sagar.  Information from Jim Bailey, June 2003.  Jim’s mother, Margaret Reeve married James Marginson Bailey and they lived in a cottage (now demolished) on the inside (East) of the sharp corner at the junction of Burdock Hill and Salterforth Drag.  Margaret’s brother Jim Reeve was a stonemason at Sagar’s Quarry and had a relation called Jack Sagar who was James Rushton’s second in command in the Barnoldswick Communist Party. (James Rushton, the firewood king, lived at Lane Bottoms and had a shed at the entrance to the Bottoms off Tubber Hill)  After the troubles in 1932 (over More Looms) Jack was blacklisted in the mills and started working as a gardener.  He eventually got a job as a paint sprayer at Bristol Tractors at Sough Bridge Mill in 1945.

1931

CH. 12/06/1931.  Report of the wedding of Harry Manock of Hazel Bank, Brogden Lane who is noted as a director of Edmondsons, Fernbank.  Reception was at Sagar’s Café.

c.1950

LTP. 78/AC/14.  Page 1.  Ernie Roberts talks about going to buy a house off Sagars.  He said they built the house on the right below Loose Games Quarry.  (Eastcliffe?)  He also said they employed hundreds of workers.  He talked about the Sagar sisters, Ida and Rose(?)  I think Rose(?) was an actress or singer. (was this Alice?)

1881 CENSUS RECORDS FOR SAGAR, BARNOLDSWICK

welling:            Village

            Census Place:            Barnoldswick, York, England

            Source:         FHL Film 1342027     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 4304    Folio 50    Page 29

            Marr            Age            Sex            Birthplace

Hugh SAGAR            M            57             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Head

            Occ:            Cotton Factory Operative

Sarah SAGAR            M            55             F            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Wife

            Occ:            Winder Cotton

John SAGAR            U            31             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Son

            Occ:            Cotton Factory Operative

George SAGAR            U            19             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Son

            Occ:            Cotton Factory Operative

Elizabeth SAGAR            U            17             F            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Daur

            Occ:            Cotton Factory Operative

Sarah SAGAR            U            14             F            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Daur

            Occ:            Cotton Factory Operative

Jane A. WOOD            M            22             F            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Daur

            Occ:            Cotton Factory Operative

Sarah WOOD            U            1             F            Skipton, York, England

            Rel:            Gr Daur

Elizabeth A. WOOD            U            1 d            F            Barnoldswick, York, England

            Rel:            Gr Daur

Thomas SMITH            M            58             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Ldr

            Occ:            Cotton Warper

Margret WILSON            U            24             F            Hull, York, England

            Rel:            Ldr

            Occ:            Cotton Throstle Spinner

 

THORNTON IN CRAVEN ENTRIES

            Dwelling:            Dotcliffe

            Census Place:            Thornton In Craven, York, England

            Source:         FHL Film 1342027     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 4305    Folio 13    Page 20

            Marr            Age            Sex            Birthplace

Thomas SAGAR            M            32             M            Lowerhouses, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Head

            Occ:            Cotton Sizer

Elizabeth SAGAR            M            26             F            Warcup, Westmorland, England

            Rel:            Wife

            Occ:            Cotton Sizer Wife

William Thomas SAGAR                       7             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Son

            Occ:            Scholar

Walter SAGAR                       6             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Son

            Occ:            Scholar

Edwin SAGAR                       5             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Son

            Occ:            Scholar

Clara SAGAR             2             F            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Daur

Albert SAGAR                       1             M            Burnley, Lancashire, England

            Rel:            Son

 

ANOTHER VERSION OF 1881 CENSUS

(these entries are under ‘Sugar’)

John, 24.  Jane, 28.  Mary, 4.  Annie (Annice?), 3.

1891 CENSUS.  SG version.

8 Church Street, Barnoldswick.  Hugh Sagar, 66.  Sarah, 64.

Spen, Salterforth.  John, 34.  Jane, 38.  Mary, 14.  Annie (Annice?), 13.  Henry, 12.  Edgar, 9.  Alice, 7.  Elizabeth J, 5.  Francis E, 2 years.

Garden Street, Barnoldswick.  George, 28.  Emma, 28.  Lavinia, 7.  Annie, 4.  James, 1 year.

Bancrofts Cottages, Barnoldswick.  William, 37.  Jane Elizabeth, 37.  Elizabeth Alice, 15.  Annie, 13.  Sarah, 11.  Jane Helen, 7.  Minnie, 4.  Louisa Mary, 1 year.

Earlham Terrace, Earby.  James, 51.  Jane, 47.  Mary, 26.  Susan, 23.  Emma, 20.  Betsy, 4.

Dotcliffe Road, Kelbrook.  Thomas, 42.  Elizabeth, 35.  William Thomas, 17.  Edwin, 16.  Walter, 16.  Clara, 12.  Charlie, 9.  Louisa, 8.  Lucilla, 6. 

SCG/31 October 2005


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
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36804 Posts
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 07:36

ALLOTMENT OF SEATS ETC IN COLNE CHURCH 1635.

[In fair hand on paper.  Looks like a contemporary copy of the original.  This is only an assumption.]

A certificate of a commission granted by the Revd. Father in God John Lord Bishop of Chester, April ye 11th 1‘635 to Nicholas Mitchell, Lawrence Hargreaves, Robert Smith, John Higgin, James Robard, James Hartley of Whycollar and Henry Parker, churchwardens for ye parrish and chappelry of Colne for Allotment and Division of ye stalls, forms and seats in ye church according to ye tennor of the same Commission and now by them divided and alloted amongst ye said parishioners as followeth.

Impremis.  For the stalls and forms adjoining to ye Chancell on Sun-side of ye Mid Alley they allot as followeth:  The first double form at Chancel back and the second next adjoining to the length of one form, they do allot and appoint to Nicholas Townley, esq., for his house at Greenfield and the tenements of Henry Baldwin, Henry Haughton, Lawrence Hartley of Bridge End, Roland Waley and the tenement lately belonging to Henry Mancknowle of Marsden.

Impremis.  The third form next adjoining, one length they do allot to John Bannister of Park Hill, gent., for his tenants at Great Hey.

Item.  For the other forms at chancel back adjoining to the South Alley (that is to say:- the first double form and the second next adjoining they do appoint to Mr Lawrence Habergham for his house and lands at Foulridge Hall and Robert Emmott for his house and lands at Standroyd.

Item.  The third form to the two last allotted to Mr Habergham and Robert Emmott they do allot for the ancient men of the parish to sit in.

The rank between mid alley and south alley allotted as followeth:-

Impremis.  The first double-seated form through between the Alleys they do appoint to Mr Henry Doughty, gent., and William Emmott for their chief mansion houses.

Item.  They do allot a stall on the south side of the great pillar to the tenants of Mr Doughty at Waterside.

Item.  The second form to the pillar they do allot to William Hartley of Bradley and Alexander Parker for their mansion houses.

Item.  The third form adjoining the pulpit and great pillar they allot and appoint to Richard Kippax of Marsden.

Item.  The double form on the west side of the great pillar, and adjoining to the pulpit they allot to Mr Lawrence Townley of Stone Edge, for Fulshaw and pasture lands, and Edward Spencer for Lomeshaw lands.

Item.  The fifth through next beneath the pulpit, they allot to Ambrose Walton for Clough-head, and William Sagar, younger, for Barkerhouse and the lands late belonging to Lawrence Willson of Bradley (viz. Lawrence Whittam, Edward Marsden and Henry Higgin.)

Item.  The sixth form they allot to William Emmott for his lands in Wycollar, Robert Folds of Trawden, John Cunliffe for his wife’s lands in Winewall, Henry Shaw for his lands at Blackow, and James Hartley of Wanlas and Alexander Hartley of Blackow for his house and lands at Blackow.

Item.  The seventh form they allot to John Hargreaves of Barrowford, Henry Blakey of Blackow, and Christopher Hartley of Barrowford for a house and lands bought of James Shackleton.

Item.  The eight they appoint for Ambrose Barcroft for his house and tenement belonging to John Smith, tenant, Thomas Acrondly of Acrondly, Richard Holgate of Foulridge and William Hartley of Ackrondly. [sic.]

Item.  The ninth they appoint to James Emmott for Delves land, and for his wife’s land, and John Bannister for his wife’s land at Southfield and Richard Hargreaves of Edge-end.

Item.  The tenth they appoint to Nicholas Townley, esq., for James Ridehalgh’s tenement called Holehouses, Lawrence Ormerod of Schofield and the heirs of one Dawson, also Henden lands late belonging to Robert Rushton (that is to say) Joseph Rushton, John Lee, Edward and James Whitaker and Richard Kippax for Birdielands

Item.  They appoint to James Wilson of Southfield, Gyles Hammond for Catlow lands, Robert Hargreaves for land at Southfield and Henry Lee of Catlow.

Item.  The twelfth they appoint to the heirs of Christopher Folds, for lands in Barrowford, William Hanson or his wife for church lands in Colne, Nicholas Parker for part of Mittons land and Nicholas Townley esq., for Rycroft tenement at Standroyd, Henry Hartley at Barrowford for part of Mittons land and Lawrence Ormeroyd for Michael Greenwood’s house and Thos. Sutcliffe for Christopher Fold’s house in Barrowford.

Item. The thirteenth they appoint to Geoffrey Shackleton of Trawden for a house in Trawden, James Shackleton for the same, for land of James Hartley alias Lores in occupation of John Bancroft and John Hartley, son of Roger, and the lands lately belonging to Henry Hartley of Trawden viz. James Hartley for Lores lands Roger Folds Christopher Hartley, Robert Hartley of Gilford Clough for several parts of the said land and Robert Folds for James Hartley’s land. [end of document]


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page

Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 07:50
  1824 Baines gives Richard Sagar as Cotton spinner of Carry Bridge Mill, Colne.

Sorry about the ragbag but there is a lot in there that could interest people. The pew allocation doc is from The Calendar of Lancs Documents. I have a latter book from the 1910 opening of John Sagar and Sidney his son as manufacturers in the new no. 2 shed at Bankfield in 1910.  The general impression gleaned from several informants in the LTP is that as manufacturers they were not the sharpest knives in the box. At one point John has to write to his insurers to admit 'I have blundered' when he realised he had isured with two companies at once. There are also some very idiosynchratic letters to customers who were complaining about faults in cloth.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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sealrescuehorne
New Member


22 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 17:17
Hi to all

Just got back to doing Sagar family research been doing a lot with the family (new arrivals and so forth).  Many many thanks to all who replied and gave me even more info on the Sagar family, I really do appreciate it.

A couple of little queries - I noticed on your old photographs that there was one posted from  someone called donald and it was of Sagar St, can anyone tell me where this Sagar Street is?  the second query is that I am trying to link my line of Sagars with that of the Sagars who co founded the Sagar Mill and Sagar House (and Sagar St) in a village called Eccleston just outside of Chorley.  I have been given the name IBZAN SAGAR as being one of the founder members of this venture (I think they co joined with Carrington family), I know that the company became Carrington and Dewhurst and then Carrington Viyella.  Amazingly I used to work (along with all my family) at Sagar Mill.  Any help with this project would be great


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Gloria
Senior Member


3581 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 19:07
Sagar St Eccleston  can be found at http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=Sagar+st+eccleston&countryCode=GB#map=53.6458,-2.72264|17|4&bd=useful_information&loc=GB:53.64457:-2.72264:17|Sagar%20st%20eccleston|Sagar%20Street,%20Eccleston,%20Chorley,%20Lancashire,%20England,%20PR7%205
If you put it on OS map and go a little way south down the road you can see Sagar Mill. You can then get an aerial view. I am pretty sure it was at one time the headquarters of Pontins and owned by Trevor Hemmings, I think the property still is. Ibzan Sagar was a manager of what is now Bygone Times, a little bit back up the road on the opposite side.


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sealrescuehorne
New Member


22 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 14:57
Hi Gloria

Many thanks for the OS link

Sue x


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