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Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
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12/07/2011
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09:11
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Tesco are considering opening a store in Barnoldswick.
They claim it will create 175 jobs and keep shoppers in the town, as well as saving local firm L&P Springs.
There are 2 exhibitions taking place this Friday and Saturday for people to gain more information.
Views, anyone?
=================== www.sheldrickrose.co.ukwww.bernulf.co.ukwww.bernulfsplace.co.uk
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wendyf
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Posted - 13/12/2011 : 16:34
As an outsider, it is clear that some of you in Barlick are going about without protective tinfoil under your hats. The conical emitters are surely wreaking their havoc.....
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panbiker
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Posted - 13/12/2011 : 16:38
Which is where I said it was in the first place.
Can I ask where you are located tomket? and do you know the layout of Barlick?
Ian |
Whyperion
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Posted - 13/12/2011 : 18:39
Tomket - the problem as defined is that the Pendle Plan ( such as I can find it ) does not seem to define the boundaries of what can be refered to as Barnoldswick Town Centre. If in the past we had defined it as the Railway Station , that would be inconsistant with many places as rail stations are not necessarily in the town centre or even anywhere near the place they purport to serve. Barnoldswick has two bus stations - as some people seem to count the terminus/turning point off Gisburn Road. We could have chosen the Drinking Fountain, that has moved over the course of time , but so has the main shopping area , the older pictures on this site and elsewhere show Albert Road as predominantly residential (majestic and co-op excepted ) , with much of the other shopping more concentrated in Church Street. The resident population at that time was slightly lower than today but I think ( please confirm someone ) that there would have been a few more corner shops in some of the growing locations that have since been developed into residential.
A comparable town might be Otley , which does have a street and area for market ( all stalls competing with the shops anyway ) , and the provision of a moderate superstore a few years ago = Sainsbury's ( there was one or two existing foodstores/superstores - Waitrose and Netto ) , but the provision of free time limited parking and very easy walking distance ( 120 yards or less ) into the town centre meant that Sainsburys benefited the town bringing in more people from around the area , also with the closure nationwide of Woolworths of which one was in Otley , the non - food ranges did not compete severly with the remaining existing shops. although it remained a struggle for newer opened shops in existing retail premises to sustain a profitable existance beyond six months to a year.
If the site proposed for Tesco were to be occupied instead by an enlarged Co-op with the existing Co-op becoming something like an Iceland/Farmfoods type of food shop this might be a more acceptable solution to sustaining and growing the overall Barnoldswick town and retail experience.
The local Barnoldswick traders might be better off campaigning for a wholesaler trade outlet to open up, in order to reduce costs in stocking up their shops.
The Views above may or may not be true , I may or may not agree with them. |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 06:54
Wendy, I suspect you may be right. Tomket (or is it Denise?) the lack of any detailed information on your profile is damaging your credibility as a member. Can I suggest that you come clean and answer questions about your location? I'm sorry to have to say (and if I am wrong I apologise) that my suspicion is that you are exclusively an anti-Tesco campaigner and that is the sole reason for your posts.
As for the vexed question aired above about the official definition of the town centre... I think we all have a mental map pf our version of the town centre and they will not all coincide. In my mental map it is bounded by Jepp Hill, Forester's Buildings, Fernbank Avenue and the line of Philip Street. There are other mini centres, the parade of shops on Gisburn Road is one. Apart from obviously outlying areas the Coates Estate and associated housing strikes me as the worst served in terms of housing density/shop facilities. Interesting that it has never developed its own retail services and perhaps an indicator that the traditional 'town centre' is not too far away to damage percieved access to shops. Looked at in that way any new store in Eastwood Bottoms could be very attractive to that section of the town.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
panbiker
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 10:11
You're right about the Coates area Stanley. In times gone by there was the Post Office and store on Coates and odd small "corner shops" at the Coates and Long Ing ends but precious little else. I suppose the opening of the new Spar and service station will be helpful but its still a fair treck (as would be the new proposal) from say the middle of the estate, especially if you are on foot. One thing I did notice about the new service station, there is quite a lot of pumps compared to the Texaco on New Road.
According to Gmap pedometer, the distance from my perceived town centre (which is not far from yours), to the proposed superstores front entrance on the industrial estate is 475 Metres (as the crow flies), the distance increases to 640 Metres if you use the most direct route using existing pedestrian highways.
Using a reference point halfway along Coates Avenue, it is just over 1100 Metres to the entrance if you go via Coates and nearly 1200 Metres if you go via Long Ing. The Co-Op in town is actually nearer if you live at the Long Ing end. So although the proposed location looks attractive for that general end of the town it is actually a longer treck to it from there than from the town centre.
From either direction, town centre or Coates the routes rise and falls 20 Metres in elevation over the length, this is nothing in a car but significant if you are on foot with a load.
Ian |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 10:25
Looking back over the last two pages there seems to be a large amount of Pendle waffle about what constitutes the town centre or out of town. A town centre is often that part that has the highest concentration of retail outlets, out of town used to be that area outside of the main built up part in our case beyond West Craven, Greenberfield Lane, Letcliffe Park, Ben and Coates lanes. According to Pendle I live out of town!!!! as does anyone further away from the town centre than 300 metres. If this is the case then a major part of Barlicks population live out of town. Stanley's take is not far off, but I wouldn't go as far as Fernbank Ave, maybe Forresters Buildings. The last shops on all of the main roads in and out of town used to be:- The Co-op opposite Bankfield entrance, the junction of Rook St and Essex St, and at the corner of Foster Rd where it joins Gisburn Rd, Westgate and what is now Strategy on Manchester Rd, there were shops down Long Ing but the road ended at Barnsey Mill. When Coates estate was first built there was a Co-op and Post Office but non of Barlicks other extensions ever had a shop, I agree with Stanley that whilst some members who do not live here make valuable contributions, there are some who for reasons unknown cannot validate their input. Barlick had at one time several rows of houses that became shops, Rainhall Rd, Albert Rd and Gisburn Rd are prime examples, on the latter only one remained as a house. Its quite amazing, but when I was at what is now West Craven High Technology College, in my class I was one of the minority who's parents worked in the cotton trade, the others were all sons and daughters of shopkeepers.
Edited by - thomo on 14/12/2011 10:26:33 AM
thomo |
Tardis
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 10:35
As I understand the "Town centre" it is defined as the main retail area within the town. Non-regular in shape.
The 300m being quoted would be referenced from the edge of the Co-op car park to the proposed development, as the Co-op is considered part of the Town centre.
I got that from the chief planner of Pendle.
I have put a new lining of tin foil in my hat but it appears to have made things worse
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tomket
New Member
37 Posts
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 10:41
Ladies and Gentlemen
I have my reasons for remaining anonymous but Tardis has explained the Town Centre issue facts as seen by Pendle Planning Department and one would imagine their information is what decisions will be made on or else Tesco or any other supermarket would drive a bus through objections made not based on fact.
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Tardis
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 10:48
The only issue I would have with this is that there probably isn't enough understanding of basic economic geography and how councils and tax authorities actually work.
Classifications are necessary for them because it simplifies their task
They then apply the legislation to these classifications.
Just because Pendle says this bit is the town centre does not mean that you couldn't open a shop more than 300m from that area. It is far more complex than that, and hence why you pay them so much money to sort it out 
quote:
thomo wrote:
Looking back over the last two pages there seems to be a large amount of Pendle waffle about what constitutes the town centre or out of town. A town centre is often that part that has the highest concentration of retail outlets, out of town used to be that area outside of the main built up part in our case beyond West Craven, Greenberfield Lane, Letcliffe Park, Ben and Coates lanes. According to Pendle I live out of town!!!! as does anyone further away from the town centre than 300 metres. If this is the case then a major part of Barlicks population live out of town. Stanley's take is not far off, but I wouldn't go as far as Fernbank Ave, maybe Forresters Buildings. The last shops on all of the main roads in and out of town used to be:- The Co-op opposite Bankfield entrance, the junction of Rook St and Essex St, and at the corner of Foster Rd where it joins Gisburn Rd, Westgate and what is now Strategy on Manchester Rd, there were shops down Long Ing but the road ended at Barnsey Mill. When Coates estate was first built there was a Co-op and Post Office but non of Barlicks other extensions ever had a shop, I agree with Stanley that whilst some members who do not live here make valuable contributions, there are some who for reasons unknown cannot validate their input. Barlick had at one time several rows of houses that became shops, Rainhall Rd, Albert Rd and Gisburn Rd are prime examples, on the latter only one remained as a house. Its quite amazing, but when I was at what is now West Craven High Technology College, in my class I was one of the minority who's parents worked in the cotton trade, the others were all sons and daughters of shopkeepers.
Edited by - thomo on 14/12/2011 10:26:33 AM
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panbiker
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 12:23
Tomket, I have no problem with you wishing to remain anonymous however this should not preclude you from offering your location.
Tardis, if it is to be the wall of the Co-op car park you can deduct 175m from the distances quoted above.
I agree that in the grand scale of things that it will probably not matter one jot when push comes to shove whether or not the proposal is exactly within the limits set out by any existing plan. After all we now have houses on the Coates wharfe site which was constantly turned down by the County Council on access issues. Nothing has changed with the access there so why has this development been allowed to proceed. There is an accident waiting to happen there with the blind entry and exit to the site.
Back to Tesco, is there any more information regarding what is being offered in the 106 agreement?
Ian |
tomket
New Member
37 Posts
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 12:53
I live in Barnoldswick.
I am not anti- Tesco per se - I am against any retail development that will take trade away from the Town Centre and destroy the vitality and vibrancy of same.
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panbiker
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 13:16
That is more or less my current position, with added doubts about the change of use of the site from industrial to retail.
Edited by - panbiker on 14/12/2011 13:17:38
Ian |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 13:59
Coates Wharf unless I am mistaken was owned by someone with a history of "getting Round" stubborn planning, I agree with Ian about the access, a few years ago a group of kids who were offering a car wash were moved from there because of the danger and of course they didn't have a permit, hard hats, protective clothing etc, The houses appear to be quite well built by modern standards, but I wouldn't like to live there. The town centre didn't look so vibrant this morning, in fact faced with a three quarter mile walk home (out of town) it was depressing, and I pondered on the feasibility of Christmas shopping in town, own up, how many do it all in Barlick? there was a time when it would have been easy. Before anyone throws a wobbly, I am not suggesting that Tesco or any of the major companies would improve this. We have a situation here where if you are a Painter Artist, you are well catered for, if you are a Painter Decorator, you have to get the car out! I may come across as being old fashioned but my take on Barlick spans over 70 years and whilst I miss the way it was I am not too old to see the benefits of change.
thomo |
Tardis
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 15:00
Maybe there is the opportunity for a decorator shop in town...how about one of the units in the old Railway?
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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 14/12/2011 : 15:39
One of the big problems there is the amount of stock required to make it resalable at a competitive price. B & D do basic paint, white and magnolia. I can name all of the shops that used to sell a good range of decorating material, Simpsons later Edmondsons, Boltons, P & I, Dales, the last one was on Albert Rd, its where I used to go, and he was good to deal with, I had an account there, and if he didn't have it in stock, he could get it quickly. I used that comparison as an example, for I know a bit about paint. The hardware shops used to sell it as well, McGregor's later Elmers, Althams, Wolstenholmes and Alfred Pilkingtons. Trouble here is its not just the diversity of shops that has changed, most of the people who run them have as well. I think one of the most impressive shopping centres I have seen in the past year was Carlisle. If you were going to outfit a home here with good quality items you would have a struggle to do it in town, which is sad, there was a time when you could. I also know that lifestyles have changed, and I would think that it is a safe bet that a large portion of the community do their main shop elsewhere, if that could be curtailed, surely the town would benefit. Anyone who thinks that I do not care about Barlick would be mistaken, I was after all born here, it is also probable that I could have saved one of the towns pubs from going down the pan, it was considered, but as a pensioner, common sense prevailed.
thomo |
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Tesco in Barnoldswick
