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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 15:05
Jim Devine jailed for 16 months for fraud. It would be cheaper to give him a Yellow Jacket and a Brush and get him to sweep the streets of Bathgate for 16 months. I do believe it would also be a  more Humbling experience for him as well.




Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 15:58
Quite agree.  We send far too many folk to prison.  I'm sure Mr Devine won't do what many first time offenders do when they end in gaol - learn the tricks of the trade and become harder to catch.  Talk to a lot of bobbies and they'll tell you that the worst thing you can do with many first time offenders is lock them up.  They are easy to catch, and prison amazingly turns them into the harder to catch whilst providing no rehabilitation at all.

 
While we're at it, 'bobbies on the beat'.  The typical bobby on the beat will stop a crime in progress once every Preston Guild (real life is not like The Bill).  So they have virtually no impact on crime rates.  However, they do reassure the public.  Indeed, going further, what is the purpose of the police?  To prevent crime, or bang up wrong-doers?  If it's the latter, then you are admitting to failing at the former aren't you?  And if the former, well feet on the ground makes no difference it seems and anyway, is it the knowledge that a bobby might nick me that stops me carrying out a crime?  That is, if I see a laptop in a car, I don't nick it because I'm scared of being caught by the police?  Well no.  I don't pinch the lap top as I'm not a robber.  So really the debate on 'crime' is about why folk are or become robbers isn't it?

 
Tell you, when you start musing on things like this, it becomes hard to define what constitutes value for money.

 
Richard Broughton



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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 17:03


quote:
Bruff wrote:

So really the debate on 'crime' is about why folk are or become robbers isn't it?


Richard Broughton


When I read this I thought of a post of a couple of days ago, by belle, talking about school trips etc. and the expectations of children. Both are quite firmly the result of upbringing, though not necessarily conscious  upbringing, by the parents. It is a matter of what the child "soaks up" as normal. From birth it starts to gain experience of life and most of it is in the home and that becomes normality to it, since it has no other experience for comparison purposes. The majority of a person's sense of "values" are built up in the home and these become their normality. These values however are not taught, they are absorbed unknowingly through hearing conversations and seeing actions, and thus we all build up our own normality, which may well acquiesce to crime in some form or other. It may well abhore gambling on the horses and yet see Lotto as normal. It may see bags of sweets and goodies as imperatives whilst viewing helping old ladies across the road as a fools pastime.

It all comes back to education, but we forget that the most lasting and important "learning" takes place outside acedemia. A persons character is formed very early in life and thereafter it is merely honed.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 17:09
On most of that, I agree entirely. I have been a victim of crime, then I consider myself lucky as it has only been the once, for some poor people it is a constant probability. We have a family member, living on the Padiham edge of Rose Grove, Burnley, the constant threat has put a damper on their lives to the extent that it shows in their faces. They cannot move without facing a massive loss as their home is now at rock bottom pricewise, it is a good semi, sound and well built.  Jackie was knocked to the ground in the street and had her rings stolen, Chris is away quite a good deal as he is a long distance lorry driver, the number of break ins prompted them to purchase a German Shepherd dog. This keeps visitors away as it is not people friendly, three weeks ago, at three in the morning, there was a loud bang from the kitchen, some one had kicked the lower back door panel in, the dog sleeps on a matt just behind the door, no one is sure just what happened next but there was blood everywhere, all up the door casing, across the garden, up the eight feet high fence and beyond. The dog had cleared this fence and was now stuck on the other side, the trail of blood led to the kerb out front and then stopped. The police were well pleased from a DNA aspect, but nothing has been heard since. Earlier I said that I was lucky, but am I. What happened to me is written elsewhere on this site, so in short, the crime led ultimately to the loss of our beautiful home, my health and livelihood. The police never recovered the stolen goods or caught those responsible, I had my suspicions that the occupants of an adjacent work unit were responsible, but there was no proof. Late last year I was out front in the garden and stood facing the house, a voice behind me called out asking for directions, as I turned, the man before me  went a deathly shade of grey, mumbled a bit and left hastily, he of the adjacent unit, now I know, it doesnt help, as I will be paying for what happened till the end. So what makes people steal, some are I believe born to it and the rest want things that they cannot obtain by normal means, so they take them, after all, the victim will be insured, so was I, the insurers getout being that they had not surveyed the new premises. All I got from the police was an idea of how cheaply my lost items would be moved on for. If I have gone on a bit, then I apologize, but eight years on and it still hurts, it always will. I dont blame the police as I know that they are hamstrung by regulation, as for the thieves, a slow and extremely painful death would suffice, at which I would like to be present.


thomo Go to Top of Page
tripps
Senior Member


1404 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 18:32
"The typical bobby on the beat will stop a crime in progress once every Preston Guild"
They will be busy next year then....


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Bodger
Regular Member


892 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 19:36
Touch wood, i have survived 74 yrs without trouble, but then, i moved to Ireland in the late 60s, our children were having to learn foreign prayers in school, and there was a drug problem surfacing in the town we lived near too, so hence the move, one may think that as a Protestant, Brit moving there at that time was asking for trouble, but not at all, the children were educated through Gaelic in a convent, and we intergrated into the local society, not demanding religous and education rights in our adopted country. I appreciate the problems that exist in the UK, my sister married and lived in Rochdale, when she came to move she lost money, the street had been taken over with people of different values who had and possibly still have no desire to integrate into their adopted country, im not blaming aliens for all your problems, but they certainly have different values.  Istill think that oncemothers stopped being mothers, and went out to work, family and social values went out with them.

 


"You can only make as well as you can measure"
                           Joseph Whitworth
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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 19:57


quote:
belle wrote:
"Frank you have moved the goalposts" 
Belle this tactic is well know as a ploy  . You may also notice that an old subject ,  that has previously been put to bed, is ressurected as a smoke screen , if  the going gets tough.

Occasionally , when that happens you get an insight into where the idea originally came from.....

or indeed a direct link....

This is known as a "shot oneself  in the foot" moment , when it turns out that the source was actually misunderstood .

The ensuing exchanges are then sometimes reduced to "technicalities"  or "word definitions " in a further attempt divert attention from the Gaffe....

If one is lucky the posts remain in place to be read   (and I'm not talking about moderator intervention here)........


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 20:16
lolol Trying to gain support Bradders !!!! It is a common tactict try to bring someone else on side it makes me  lolol



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 20:25
Nope ... I think you'll find it's widespread......

Note the deafening silence  concerning my recent  "open question" on this matter  !


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 22:04
The deafening silence is just a symbol of democracy...we can all choose what we want to  respond to and what we want to say.  Our responses are well thought out in an effort to add to the discussion, rather than simply to provoke an argument.

Edited by - Herb on 31/03/2011 11:14:07 PM


HERB


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 23:07
Bodger, you have said it all, and I applaud you for it. We have always had a minority in this country who had no intention whatsoever of living within the laws of the land, now augumented by others who want to change the entire structure to suit their own ideals, we have been a "soft touch" and they knew it, now they abuse it. Good luck Bodger. 


thomo Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 31/03/2011 : 23:15


quote:
Bodger wrote:
  Istill think that oncemothers stopped being mothers, and went out to work, family and social values went out with them.

 
Once mothers went out to work the supply of "normality" went on short time.



Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 00:31


quote:
Herb wrote:
The deafening silence is just a symbol of democracy...we can all choose what we want to  respond to and what we want to say.  Our responses are well thought out in an effort to add to the discussion, rather than simply to provoke an argument.

Edited by - Herb on 31/03/2011 11:14:07 PM
Staggering logic Herb ...

My open question was actually an attempt to settle an argument , and you say that nobody  replied  in a well thought out effort to add to the discussion.......

I'll ask the question again .....Is there anyone out there who thinks that the National Insurance scheme operated by our Government is a PONZI ?.....

 

 

 

 

Edited by - Bradders on 01/04/2011 12:38:54 AM

Edited by - Bradders on 01/04/2011 02:17:46 AM


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 02:23
Bradders as I have thought for some time, you have a problem reading.  That is not at all what I said!  I said we are able to choose the topics we wish to respond to,  and that our reponses are well thought out..  You should avoid  any reference to logic and stick to something that you might understand!


HERB


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 03:37
I had a phone call from a friend I haven't spoken to for years. She has a book for me and I shall call in today to see her.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
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