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Doc
Keeper of the Scrolls
2010 Posts
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 Posted -
28/05/2004
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16:32
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LANCASHIRE TEXTILE PROJECT
TAPE 78/AI/04 (Side two)
THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON APRIL 26TH 1979 AT 13 AVON DRIVE BARNOLDSWICK. THE INFORMANT IS STANLEY GRAHAM WHO WAS THE ENGINEER AT BANCROFT MILL AND WHO HAS BEEN THE INTERVIEWER ON MOST OF THE TAPES..
Family life in the home then. Whenever possible we did all sit down to our meals together. This is one thing that I particularly remember about home, we always had some sort of a covering on the table and the table laid properly and we all sat down together if possible. Obviously if my father wasn't there, if he was going to be 1ate home he didn’t, but with the exception of my father we all, it was always regarded as important that everybody was in for meals on time, at the right time, and had them together. I still think it's a good thing, it seems to be a thing that's dying out nowadays. The only rules about children’s behaviour at the table were the normal sort of things about consideration for others, eating tidily and not being a pig at the table. And I suppose my parents were strict in some ways about some things, but not really out and out, we did have times for coming in at night. We didn't swear and we weren't cheeky, and any punishment that there were would be a quick clout round the ear. We never had grace before meals, the
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only prayers we had at home were probably saying prayers at night, before we went to bed, but that was never strictly carried on, we weren't what you would call a religious family. And birthdays were different from other days in respect to the fact that there was always a present, and usually something just a bit special to eat, but never any big set pieces like parties or anything like that. There were occasional parties, but they were really occasional until later on when we got older and things were getting a bit easier from the point of view of money and getting food as well. Christmas and New Year was the typical family Christmas and New Year, spent at home, with presents and I always remember we always had good presents. Easter holidays, Easter was well it was just like any other time really the only difference was that there were different services at Church, and I don’t ever remember Pace Eggs or Rolling Eggs, or anything like that.
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One of the reasons for this would be that in Stockport the big holiday wasn't Easter it was Trinity, that's the week end after Whit Sunday, and that was when the scholars walked. Now that was a big occasion, and the scholars walking in Stockport was a tremendous procession, and we always had to go down to see that, if we weren't actually walking in it. I can't remember any musical instruments in the house while we were at Norris Avenue, there was a piano when we got to Napier Road and my sister used to play that, and at one time when I was about 12 or 13 year old they did try to teach me the violin, but that didn't last long. It went on for about 12 mouths, and then everybody gave it up as a bad job. As for singing, not a lot of singing in the house really, people did sing as they went about but one of the things about going to Church was that I joined the choir at an early age and first of all on the choir at St Martins, Heaton Norris. Then when we moved to Napier Road at St Paul’s Heaton Moor and I was on the choir until my voice broke and I left home. And my mother was always very interested in choral singing because she came from a place where they had a very strong tradition, Dukinfield. I can remember we used to sit down and listen to the Messiah on the wireless with the music and follow it right the way through.
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And games we played in the house? Normal things such as Ludo and Snakes and Ladders, cards, we used to play cards quite often. Regular newspaper and magazine? Yes, we used to have a regular newspaper every day. I think it used to be the Daily Express but I have just had a message from my mother, of course it was the Guardian, good Liberal paper. I remember at one time my father always used to get the Practical Engineer, we used to, if I remember rightly one of the wardrobes was stacked up with them. I think we all belonged to the Library except my father, he was too busy working especially during the war to do any reading at all. And there were plenty of books about in the house, prizes, presents, there were always plenty of books about, everybody could read and write, and we had plenty of toys for those days, we were always very well off for toys. As to what my mother did in her spare time in the house, she didn't have a lot of spare time. I don't think any housewife did at that period. If she had any time all, it’d perhaps be doing a bit of knitting or reading the Woman's Weekly or listening to the wireless. Of course the great thing about listening to the wireless was that you could do other things at the same time.
My father didn’t have much spare time. In winter his spare time would be spent sat smoking and listening to the wireless, perhaps having a bit of a read, but in summer he was nearly always outside doing something. And we used to get up in the morning at, oh about 7 o'clock or half past. There was never any trouble about getting up in the morning because we were always in bed very early at night. My mother was always one for getting us to bed in good time. That's probably one of the reasons why I don't know much about what they got up to when we had gone to bed. I can remember many a time we used to be in bed for 7 and 8 o'clock, even in summer and I used to think it was very cruel at the time but I realize now that it was a good way of bringing anybody up. Pets, I can remember we got an Alsatian once, and had nothing but trouble with it. It seemed to get everything, it finished up by falling in the Mersey and getting paralysed and it had to be done in. Yes, my father smoked and my mother smoked as well at that time I think. My brothers and sisters never smoked, but I did, I was pinching my father's cigarettes as early as I can remember. As regards gambling, well nothing really serious, a bob or two on a horse, the Grand National, something like that. And I can never remember a time when we didn't have a radio. Now at this point I’ll just go back a bit, and just talk about Napier Road as opposed to Norris Avenue, with regard to the house.
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In some ways it was a big change moving up to Napier Road on Heaton moor, because it was an older house probably built about 1850-1860 and a very large house. Heaton Moor at one time was the place to live if you had a business in Manchester and in consequence a lot of the houses were very large. Ours was a, a what you’d call a superior terraced house. In other words you couldn't get from the front to the back without going right the way round the block. But it was a very good quality terraced house, big high rooms and plenty of them. Starting from the bottom there was a complete range of cellars under each room, it was really a duplication of the rooms on the first floor. I suspect they were used for servants' quarters because when we moved in there was still the bells down in the cellar on springs. Then on the ground floor, starting at the front there was a large hall with a stairway, a lounge, a
(10 min) (300)
dining roomy a big living kitchen, and then a small cooking kitchen and scullery. Of course stairs down, under the stairs going upstairs, down into the cellar. Then on the first floor was a very large front bedroom, a big bedroom over the living-room, another bedroom over the kitchen and a passage through there to the bathroom which was at the back over the scullery. These houses would have been built with a bathroom when they were first built. And then there were the attics. There was a large front attic and then another, quite a large attic over the living room and second bedroom and then another large attic at the back over the line of what would have been the back bedroom, the passage to the bathroom and the kitchen below. And that was made into another bathroom when we moved in, we had two bathrooms in that house. Andy I used to sleep upstairs in the attic, and my sister and brother used to sleep downstairs in the two bedrooms downstairs and my mother and father in the front room which left one big roomy the attic empty all the time we were there. At one time we had a small slate bed billiard table in there and used it as a sort of playroom. And all these rooms had fireplaces, which gives an idea of the class of house it was when it was built. The furniture was exactly the same as it was down at Heaton Norris, but when we moved in there we got a new three piece suite, and that went into the front room and some new carpets appeared. This would be in about 1945 and strangely, well I say strangely enough, well I can remember getting one piece of carpet there for the stairs, and my mother's still using it now on the stairs (350)
here in this house and that's what, 35 years later. It must have been a good carpet when it was bought. There was a very large garden at the back and at the end of it we built a garage with a greenhouse on top of it and at the front there was a small garden, but it was badly lit, because it faced north and there was very little ever grew there. And really, you can see the picture that when we moved up there it was a step up the ladder really, and it was very nice living at Napier Road. Things had improved quietly one way and another and when we were up there we did get the first fridge which again my mother still has, and the first washing machine. I remember the washing machine was a bit of a laugh because we came home one day and found out that a washing machine had been delivered a beautiful thing for those days, it was a very modern washing machine, a Servis washing machine. And, father was a bit of a
bugger. Stuff used to land home, we didn't know it was coming, and of course we landed home and thought Good God, he's gone mad, my mother's got a washing machine! It wasn't until he came home that we found out that it was one he’d fiddled for a mate of his and it wasn't really my mother's at all. And I think she was a bit disappointed about this. I don't quite know what pressure was applied on my dad but suffice it to say that shortly afterwards we became the proud owners of a washing machine as well and we have had one ever since. Another change that we had while we were at Napier Road was that we got a Rayburn in.
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Of course Allied Ironfounders made the Rayburn, that was a solid fuel stove for cooking and we had a Rayburn in. And, really it was a very good house that, a really good house and we were all very happy there.
Anyway we'll move on to social life outside the home. Where did you usually play
outside the house! Anywhere we could. Down at Norris Avenue we were lucky,
it was not a dead end but it was a crescent and there was no through traffic, so we could play anywhere on the street in no danger at all. Also if we just popped behind the houses we were into a park, there was a park with a playground, bowling greens, tennis courts, anything you cared to mention. And, in those days Heaton Norris was almost out in the fields, you hadn't got to go so far one way or the other and you were out into the fields, and you can have a good walk. And we did play to some tune. One of the favourite games in these days was going around the morning after an air raid and picking up the shrapnel which is a thing that people laugh at nowadays, but we used to collect shrapnel and cartridge cases that fell from airplanes, all sorts of stuff. And we used to play with anyone, I don't think there was anybody that we weren't allowed to play with. We just played with whoever there was about, we did our own sorting of them out. And the games we played were ... well we played all sorts of things that a lot of people on the tapes that we have done don’t mention. I mean
we used to make parachutes with a stone and a handkerchief and throw them
up, we’d play with them all day. And making gliders out of paper, and games
connected with war of course because war was what we were living through then, and then the ordinary games like Hide and Seek, and Tick and Tag and
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anything like that. We played the lot, whips and tops, anything that was going, conkers. And we did go for a fair lot of walks, my mother was a great walker she used to think nothing of pushing the pram 7 miles and back and we were all good walkers. And bicycle rides, that came in later, when we moved to Napier Road. I was bought a magnificent bicycle when I was about 12 years old and used to ride it all over the place, we used to think nothing of doing 100 or 200 miles at the weekend. Several of us used to go riding together and we really did ride some great distances. Can’t remember a lot about collecting berries or firewood, or fruit or anything like that while we were out. We went out just for the enjoyment of it. I did once get into fishing but soon gave up when I found out that I couldn't catch fish. It was canal fishing and I often think that anybody that goes canal fishing is just looking for a way of getting away from the wife or something. And my dad, the only time my dad went out he used to go to the football on Saturday, or the cricket if it was in summer. And, there'd be one night a week, he'd be late home and we knew when he did come home he used to go to sleep very quickly and of course he had been at the pub in Denton. There were times when he had to go out on business and there is no doubt about it that a lot of whisky was got through while they were doing business. I can remember him coming home many a time and sitting down in the chair and just going to sleep in his overcoat. And my mother, being a woman of quality used to leave him there till he came to. But he couldn't be said to be a drinker really, just a man that liked a drink. I can't ever
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remember my mother going out so much. If she did, it'd be visiting neighbours or we used to go across to Dukinfield and visit relations across there but that was usually at week ends. I shouldn't think she averaged more than one night a week out if she was going out. And Church going, well mother went regularly, and we went regularly but my father never went. And when we were at Heaton Norris it was St Martin's - as 1 say I was in the choir. When we were on Heaton Moor it was St Paul’s. And we used to go to Sunday School as well, in fact with being on the choir I used to go five times a week, I used to go twice to choir practice, once to morning service, once to evening service and once to Sunday School. And if there were any special services in between we used to go to them as well. I can't really remember a lot of social events, connected with the Church. There was the Prize Giving, once a year for the Sunday School at which we always got a prize because we were forced to go, and otherwise 1 can't really remember other social activity going on connected with the Church. There undoubtedly were some but we were never mixed up in it. The people that went to the Church were mostly what you'd call high working class, lower middle class, and above. Heaton Moor was what was known as a fairly good area, and it seemed that the sort of people that went to the Church were the sort of people who’d be liable to go across into the Reform Club which was just across the road afterwards and have a drink there, including the Vicar. And I should say that they all mixed fairly well. I can't really
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remember anybody being stand-offish. As for holidays, well we always went away for a holiday, I can’t really remember a year when we missed. North Wales was very popular, as we liked the sea and I also remember when the bombing got really bad in Manchester and Stockport we decided to, I think my father decided we'd be safer if he sent us all out into the country for a bit, and we went for about three months to a place in Derbyshire, a farm called Burr’s Mount at Hancocks at Great Hucklow, in Derbyshire and I had a really splendid time there. I can remember that summer it was marvellous. We did nothing but go round feeding pigs with coal and using pumps we shouldn't have done and wandering about. And there's an old lead mine near the place and oh it was marvellous. And then I remember we once went to a farm in
Cheshire, Poole’s at Buglawton. We went and stayed there for a fair while as well and that meant that we missed a bit of the bombing in Manchester, not all of it, there was plenty went on, but that was one of the reasons why we went away for these long holidays. And I remember that my father very seldom went with us because he wasn't able to go, he was too busy working. War effort and all that. So it was usually my mother and the children. And there were occasional outings and visits when we were young but remember that this was mostly during the war years and we were very
restricted. Even though we had a car at that time, there was no petrol and there were very few places to go. It usually boiled down to going somewhere where it was nice, having a walk. I mean in those days there were no cafes because of rationing. There was no such thing as going somewhere and having a cup of tea or anything like that. If you wanted anything you took it with you. And the times when 1 went out just with my father were usually, as I got older to the cricket. I never went to the football, I wasn't interested in football but I used to go to the cricket every Saturday at Old Trafford. Our family never were connected with the Temperance Movement and the only instruction I got about the evils of drink was the fact that if you came in and went to sleep in the armchair you got left there until you woke up yourself. And I can remember seeing women going into pubs but nobody ever seemed to bother much about it. Things were easing off a bit in this respect by this time. Hard to say if I know of any families ruined by one or more members drinking. I know families where some people drink too much and it isn't a good thing, but 1 don't think really that's the idea that was behind this question.
In the local pubs yes, there were certain rooms that were kept for certain people. Tap room, best room, singing room and just about every pub was divided up in that way in the Stockport area at that time. There was generally a private room at the back where anybody who was going to talk business or wanted to talk and didn’t want anybody else to hear could go. Street performers. I can remember barrel organs, and I can remember people playing musical instruments in the street. I'm not so sure about sellers who entertained passers by, there was a lot of back chat in the market and things like that but not just in the main streets, during the day: And the Clubs or Societies that I belonged to before I left school, Church Choir, Cubs, I was in the Cubs a long while, and when I moved to Heaton Moor I got into the Scouts but I only went once 1 think, I didn't like at all. Andy after
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that I seemed to find my own amusements, I never was much of a club man. And Stockport, as a place to live when I was young, it was good, it was all right, especially up in Heaton Moor, plenty to do, plenty of people about and not a bad area to live in at all. And of course, in a lot of ways, we were privileged. I mean our parents were amongst the higher wage earners of the time, even though I can remember his wage wouldn't be much more than about £850 year then, but we were fairly comfortably off. And I can never remember going to a wedding or a funeral when I was young but there was very little difference then than there is now except that things were more formal especially at weddings. I mean now it's permissible to go to a wedding wearing almost anything but then it was the dark suit, white shirt and dark coloured tie. And where did I enjoy going most when I was a child? I think walking down the side of the Mersey. Either that or going round the market in Stockport. Pocket money? Yes we had pocket money, I can't remember what it was, I think probably in later days we got up to something like half a crown a week. With which we'd be really well off then. And it was nearly all spent on the strangest things. I mean marbles, sweets, all sorts of stuff. I used to buy a lot of balls of string and stuff like that. I used to find all sorts of uses for it. I remember we used to make electric motors out of bits of tin and copper wire and pieces of wood. You never seem to see anybody doing that nowadays, we used to make electric motors and run them off batteries. And yes, friends did call at the house fairly often. I don’t, I think in a lot of cases they were invited but people just seemed to be, people just seemed to drop in in those days. They'd drop in on you for a bit, probably once or twice a week you'd have somebody calling. And many a time your dad'd bring somebody home with him, especially during the war when they had some, I remember we'd come home sometimes and find an Australian soldier asleep on the sofa in the front room, or something like that, it made life
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interesting. Saturday was, it was a day for playing round and enjoying yourself. Saturday morning you did exactly what you wanted. Saturday afternoon was the pictures, and Saturday evening, you played until it was dark, and then went to bed. Didn't go to any concerts or theatres or music halls but cinemas, never a week went by but what we went to the pictures at least once and usually twice. It used to be a regular thing, we used to go every Thursday night to the Carlton Cinema in Stockport. We used to wait for my father coming home and he used to take us. And if he was late he used to land home and find that his tea had been made into sandwiches and he had a flask and he had to come and eat it with us while he was sat there watching the film. The reason for that was that a friend of his [Mac Parker] was the manager, and we used to get in for nothing. Which was a good thing, front row of the circle at the Carlton and, it was all right was that. I can't really ever remember my father discussing politics, I think he had more sense. If he voted and when he voted I should think he voted Conservative. One of these things about these questions is that it
makes me realise how little I actually knew about my father. I mean I don't really know whether he was, what his politics were. But I should think most likely Conservative and as to why he held Conservative views, I should think because he was a fairly conservative sort of a bloke himself and in those days, Conservatives were conservative. There was a
(30 min)
difference between Conservative, Labour and Liberal. I mean now, things have changed, and there is very little difference, we are really voting for personalities. My mother's views? I suppose, the same as my father's. I should think that she'd vote Conservative as well. I think that people'd vote, in those days especially more or less because they liked Churchill, thought Churchill was a great man for the country. Of course during the war it was coalition government, a national government, so it didn’t really apply then. And neither my mother or father were a member of a political party and didn't do any work for them, and 1 can't say that I could ever remember there being elections when I was young, they just didn't
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play any part in our lives at all. And I am sure that my father never felt that his job would be at risk unless he voted for a particular party. He'd vote for who he wanted to. And I should think he did usually vote.
Education. First school I went to was Hope Memorial church school on Huntsman’s Brow, Stockport. I went there from when I was four and a half until I was nine. The benefits I gained from that school were many and varied. One was that it was a good education and the second was that due to the peculiar conditions of the war years, the last two years I was at that school there were only two of us in the class and I can remember that a girl and myself were taught by the headmistress for two years solid. It was like having a private tutor for two years. And I know I went from there to St Thomas's at Heaton Chapel and did two years there before going into grammar school and never did a thing except go for the headmaster's tobacco and learn poetry because actually I'd gone as far as I could do with Miss Hogg down at Hope Memorial. I often think that was a great thing for me, having that happen to me. Teachers were strict about all sorts of things then. I mean things were far different in schools, you went there to learn and you sat at a desk in rows, and you did as you were told and you did learn, and no bad thing either. One thing I do remember is that we used to, it was fairly modern practice then during the long school holidays we used to be able to go back to the school and play under supervision and we used to do that quite often, we used to like it. I went to grammar school, yes competitive examinations. I did three, one for Manchester Grammar, one for Hulme Grammar and one for Stockport and I just managed to scrape into Stockport Grammar school by the skin of my teeth. I think I was probably the only one from that school that went. and I stayed at the grammar school until I was 17 years old.
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I left to go into farming in 1953. I didn't go to night school when I left school, funnily enough until about two years ago, and then I started going to night school again to study for qualifications to get into Lancaster university. I want to get into there, back end of this year, I think it's about time I went back to school. At Hope Memorial we used to come home for our dinner, but at St Thomas's and at the grammar school we used to stay. It was school dinners mostly but at the Grammar school very often I used to take sandwiches. We were trained in practical work at school but not until we got to the grammar school really. The only practical work I was taught at school was at Hope Memorial where they taught us to knit and I think I can still do a bit of knitting. But at Stockport Grammar School we used to do what they called - what was it called - Manual ... I can't remember the name of it, Manual studies or something like that. Anyway we used to go and do woodwork, and turn out trays, and toast racks and God knows what. But I always liked it actually, I always liked woodwork. And yes, parents used to visit school, they used to have an open day once a year. The parent teacher relationship at schools weren't the same as it is now and it was coming to it but at the grammar school there was some interest shown, but not as much as there is nowadays. Andy of course contact between the school and the parents was limited really to the reports that went out at the end of each term on how well you had done. They were very thorough reports at the grammar school. Nobody ever suggested any sort of a job to me while I was at school, there was no sort of careers guidance and I should think that what they'd have thought of as a good job was something connected with the professions.
[Funnily enough, at a re-union with five of my mates from school 50 years later we found that we had all ended up being engineers, and three of us had worked on steam engines!]
In the event I went and did what I wanted to do and went and did a year's practical with the intention of going into agricultural college but of course things didn't turn out as they should do and I was called up for army service and finished up doing two years in the army. And the school, grammar school, used to mark special days by having a half holiday. And then the neighbourhood. Yes, there was help
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between neighbours but not the same amount that there would have been on a back street. As I have already said, moving into Norris Avenue and Bankfield Avenue would be to most people a step up. Things just weren't, probably as it wasn't so much of a small village or a group of back streets would be say down, further down towards the middle of Stockport. People were all a bit better off and tended to keep to themselves a bit more but there still was help from neighbours if somebody was ill or was confined. Things like doing a bit of baking, doing some shopping, going round and sitting with somebody. And as for how much borrowing went on, well I couldn’t really say. I know that we never did any or very seldom, it'd have to be an absolute disaster if we did. And yes neighbour’s would drop in every now and again, specially the neighbours, funnily enough the neighbours on Norris Avenue did but Bankfield Avenue, which was only the opposite way, they were the houses on the other side of the crescent, I can't remember anybody coming from there. And, I can't really remember anything about people talking on door steps, or quarrelling, or fighting, there wasn't really a lot of street life. If there was any intercourse between people it was inside the houses. Yes I can remember a lot of poor children at school, especially at Hope Memorial which was on the boundary between the better parts of Heaton Norris and the really bad parts down by the river, Brinksway. And there were some poor children at that school, there's no doubt about it. It was nothing unusual for people to be off school for three or four days and its turned out they had been off school waiting for their boots to be repaired. But I don't think they were treated any differently at all, it was a very good little school that and they were just all treated exactly the same. The only thing that really was frowned on, was when children turned up really dirty to school and something was soon done about that. And, as for why did we think they were poor? Well I mean it was good to see why they were poor, the clothes were in rags and as I say they were
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many a time off school while they were having the boots repaired. And something which you noticed about them, some people argue against this nowadays, but some of them did stink and it was a queer sort of a smell, sort of a stale smell. I don’t know really what caused It. Probably cooking in small rooms, damp and lack of ventilation and not keeping as clean as they should have done. But the families that were thought of as rough were people who had children like that and people who lived in places like Brinksway and Portwood in Stockport where there was some very substandard property. Respectable ones were the ones that kept the kids clean and send them to church and fed them and in later years had a car. These were known as respectable. Of course it was possible to be respectable and poor but if somebody was being respectable and poor it was sometimes very difficult to see that they were poor because they made such a good job of being respectable that it was a job to tell what the finances were. I can't ever remember soup kitchens or anything like that or anything about the work house. I didn't even know they existed. Really, widows, most of the widows that I had ever come into contact with would have been war widows and they'd be under war widow’s pensions. We didn't have any relations living anywhere near, the nearest ones were at Dukinfield. And we used to see them occasionally, we used to go across perhaps, oh three or four times a year to visit them. And if I was asked to put the family into a social class, I'd say well, Heaton Norris, higher working class, Heaton Moor lower middle class and as for knowing anyone from other social classes, well of course we did, you came in contact with all sorts of classes at school and the only difference was that some had more money than others, some were dressed better than others, that was the only difference. There was no difference in the people themselves. And the sort of jobs that men in the street had, in Napier Road Heaton Moor, they were mostly professional men. Down in Norris Avenue, well it could be anything from working in an engineering works to being a self-employed jeweller. There was a fairly wide spread of professions on that avenue. And as I say, the rough streets in the area were Portwood, Brinksway, down that way. The better streets were where we lived of course and farther up the hill. Funnily enough in that part of Stockport the further up the hill you got, the better the area you were getting into. Probably because you were getting further away from the river, the smell and the mills. I don't know about who was considered the most important people in the town, probably the Mayor and Corporation and we never came into contact with them. As for what we thought about the police, we had a very healthy respect for them. And other parts of the town that we went to regularly, well we used to, we seemed to wander about to nearly all parts of the town especially when we got the bikes, we used to go to just about every part of Stockport and it was a fairly big place. As for there being any sort of person whom your parents preferred the children not to marry, well I don't really think there were. And I can remember people being called real gentlemen and real ladies and I think usually the reason was, and this might sound a facile answer to the question, that they acted like gentlemen or ladies. There are certain people that act like gentlemen and usually they are people who show more consideration for others without ever appearing to be patronizing or being do-gooders. Really I suppose they are people of a higher social class but people who don't use that as an advantage over the people they are dealing with from lower classes. And I was just trying to think of some and it's funny, the names escape me now but I can see one or two people in my mind's eye who were regarded as being gentlemen and ladies. But I can't remember the names. Of course, there is no reason why 1 should, they were out of my class altogether, out of my social class.
SCG/05 September 2003
6,543 words.
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Stanley Graham (Engineer & Researcher) Tape 05
