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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:41
New version to make loading easier'

Old topic is HERE


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 15:29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gone_for_a_Burton

Interesting article, includes both derivations. I like the theme of the advert where one character was missing. Getting warmer?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 15:35
I am going to plump for the beer, because it is the best explanation that links to the use of the word "drink" for sea. My dad was on a french ship during the war and often used the term "in the drink" to refer to someone falling in water.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 16:03
Tripps ..don't mean tio be "picky" (honest) but the Brewery you refer to starting in 1982  is actually called the Burton Bridge Brewery , and if I remember rightly was started as a Micro at the Burton Bridge Pub.....Damned fine ales they make too...!

The other "Burton Brewery " must have gone out of business or been taken over , some time ago ...

My Dad told me about going for a Burton , in the Ale sense , when I was a boy .... and I'm 64 on Saturday !


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tripps
Senior Member


1404 Posts
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 16:21
Be as picky as you like mate - that's how we'll get to the solution Smile. Yes you're right about the Burton Bridge Brewery, but it was the only one I found with Burton in the name.  I've looked further since, and there was a Burton Brewery, but as ypu surmise, it was taken over in about 1915, so not really relevant to this discussion.
I think I've had enough of Burtons now........
Here's a nice poem I found whils browsing.

"Say for what were hopyards meant.
Or why was Burton built on Trent?
Oh many a peer of English Brews
Livelier liquor than the muse,
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think."
— A.E. Housman





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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 16:40
Well there were people flying planes towards the end of the first world war, perhaps this was a RAF term that carried on and was applied to the second ww.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 06:39
"Prior to the Second World War the Burton Brewery ran a series of advertisements for Burton's Beer. In these adverts the characters would use the phrase to explain the absence of one of the characters in the advert, implying that they had gone for a pint of Burton's. One of the adverts (at least) was football related and featured teammates asking the location of a missing player (probably the goalkeeper/referee??) and being told he had 'gone for a Burton' During the Second World War pilots used the phrase to describe the absence of pilots who had failed to return from a mission."

 This is from the Wiki article if you haven't seen it.

On another matter, I've come across the description in 1900  'weed broom' which I thnk means a hard sweepinjg brush. Anyone come across it?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Bodger
Regular Member


892 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 09:10
Weed broom, could it be another term for a besom ?


"You can only make as well as you can measure"
                           Joseph Whitworth
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tripps
Senior Member


1404 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 09:11
Yes I had seen that, but it seems to be contradicted by an entry from the same source saying that the "Burton Brewery" went into receivership in 1907, and was bought out by Worthingtons in 1915.  Hard to see them advertising under that brand name pre second war. If we rely on Wikipedia for historical sources, then Henry Ford may yet be proved right. I've just  reminded myself of he word 'canard'
.
Caveat (again) .  You may still be right, but I chose to take the sceptical view.    

Edited by - tripps on 27/01/2011 09:12:41 AM


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TOM PHILLIPS
Steeplejerk


4164 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 17:28
Weed broom,could be a garden rake???

Iam tending to go with Montague Burton for the "gone for a Burton"  phrase,people tended to use shops to get witty phrases,ie.your like"one o' Lewis's",,if you fell off the COOP you'd land in the divy.???


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 19:56
Yeah , but Tom ......."Gone for a Burton" was (and is) a negative saying ...and Burtons made good suits (well not bad , anyway !).....

I've got another question.......

Where did   " Pulling someone's leg " come from..  (As in "you're pulling my.....")  ?


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 07:56
Weed broom came up under the context of a sweeping brush in the mill so I doubt it is a besom. Mind you, it could be a derivation from the old term for a hard sweeping brush.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 10:33
Here's a couple of Scots words for you to play with..Footer,  and plooter, (not quite the same vowel sound) footer more like 'oops', and plooter more like 'through'.

just to get you off the Burton saga..here's one I had explained to me recently..hoist by your own petard..I always thought it was related to "give 'em enough rope they'll hang themselves!" however seems a petard was a small bomb or explosive device used hundreds of years ago(French 'petard' -to fart) so it literally means "blown up (hoist)by your own bomb (petard)!" 


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 07:47
Belle, 'petard, hoisting by'; exactly my understanding.

Only 'footer' I can think of is as in 'First Footing'.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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wendyf
Senior Member


1439 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 08:05
Belle, if I was footering with something would I be doing it in a half hearted or ineffectual way? Its a word I have heard used many times but it's hard to pin it down!


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Bodger
Regular Member


892 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 09:56
"hoist by your own petard" my version was that knights on horseback when practising with their lances used charge at a target that was hung from a rotating arm, if the lance got stuck in the target the horse kept going but the knight was left hanging from his lance stuck in the "petard", hence the expression


"You can only make as well as you can measure"
                           Joseph Whitworth
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