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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  25/11/2004  :  14:20
I've always been fascinated by the things people do in their spare time when they can do exactly what they want to do. Men and sheds are a particularly fertile field. Women tend to do their thing in the comfort of the house.



I was delighted to see Andy's picture of the clock movement he has made.







It struck me that we could perhaps start a new topic devoted to spare time skill. So Andy starts it off and my contribution is this:







It's a small steam engine made from scratch and is based on the Stuart 5A but a longer stroke. One of these will drive a 14 foot boat with steam at 250psi. By the way, we don't like to call them models, it's exactly the same construction and materials as a full size engine, just smaller. So come on out there, let's hear about what you make in your spare time. I reckon we could be in for some surprises!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/05/2007 : 05:30

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Electric Motor fairy has been and delivered a 3/4hp motor.  (I ordered 1/2hp but they hadn't got one so sent this for the same price)  Totally anonymous and so light you wouldn't believe it, no wonder they knocked Horace Green's out.  The 1/3hp and 1hp HGs have gone to the motor hospital for refurb so I'll finish up with the right motor on the 1927 lathe and a 3/4hp spare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The new motor arrived just at the right time as I was able to true the chuck back for the elliptical chuck on the nose it will run on, the only way to get it dead accurate.  I did it during the adverts on the TV last night.  Great having a lathe in the front room.....  (nearly as good as a replica of the Enterprise flight deck!)




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/05/2007 : 16:55
Had a productive day on the chuck, I'll post the pics and description tomorrow morning, far too frustrating doing it at this time of night.  One thing that I am sure of now is that this is a very old chuck.  There is much use of riveting to hold the parts together and I'm going to replace almost all these with brass countersunk screws.  Also, the six main holes in the plate which took the rivets that held it to the boss are drilled totally haphazard.  I thought they might be on the same pitch circle but they are nowhere near, they've been poked through by guess.  This made it quite interesting matching the plate to the new boss!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 06:35

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The foundation plate is a tight fit on the boss.  It only has a sixteenth of an inch hold but is firm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is where an overhead drive comes in really handy.  The rivet holes for fixing the plate to the boss are haphazard, there is no rhyme or reason to their placing and using this set up it's easy to drill a centre hole in each of the locations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the boss after drilling and tapping for the plate, boring 1/2 inch for the lead screw and then milling out the clearance necessary for the lead screw not to connect to the slide. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The original fixing was with rivets but I am going to use brass 1/2 inch whit screws.  I have a box full of them, one inch long.  I've chamfered the holes in the foundation plate and during the commercials on TV last night I converted the round heads to countersunk and I'll mill off any projections when the chuck is finally assembled.  They have to be flat because the slide carrying the secondary nose has to lie flat on the plate.  I've clened up the brackets for the lead screw and todays kob is to make the screw and the lead screw nut.  We're getting there, I filled in a minute or two last night cleaning the brass parts up and they are looking good.  This revealed some fitter's marks that locate the slides in their proper order.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 19/05/2007 : 16:50

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The foundation plate has been cleaned up and today it got its original leadscrew bearing points back using the original rivets as well.  I was tempted to make new brackets but on the whole I want to keep as much of the original as possible.  i've resized the holes to suit the 3/8 leadscrew I'm going to make in place of the original 5/16 one.  The reason for this is that 3/8 BSF is 20tpi and so I'll have the benefit of the die to clean up the thread and the tap to make the lead nut which of course is very small, it'll be a lot easier and just as good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've got as far as roughing the leadscrew out, it will get finished tomorrow.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 20/05/2007 : 17:46

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The two jaw doesn't often get an outing but when it does it always solves a problem, turning the peg on the leadnut.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The chuck is finished and now fits the 1927 lathe.  It looks a bit funny as the foundation plate is slightly elliptical but not bad for a chuck which is at least 100 years old.  Onward and upward!




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 21/05/2007 : 16:50

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A day of small things like polishing the key for the cross slide on the elliptical chuck and cleaning up.  While I was cleaning up I came across this chuck which has been kicking about for a while.  I remember seeing a pic of the 1927 lathe where it was mounted on the tailstock so I made a No. 1 Morse taper mandrel for it and fitted it.  I think it could be quite a handy thing to have but have because the drill chuck for the tailstock only goes up to 1/4 of an inch.  Anyway, it's doing more good here than clodding about.  Time I left this lathe alone I think and got on with finishing the flywheel that has been hanging about half-finished for months.  That'll suit Doc, he's always asking whether I have finished it......

By the way, you can see the handle I fitted on the end of the leadscrew, I don't think I ever posted a picture of it.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 22/05/2007 : 17:26

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back onto the flywheel.....  I've decided what I want to do with it now, mount it on a sgaft and bearings and set it up on a wooden support.  I might put cranks, eccentric and governor drive on it.  Here's the wheel as I filed the stake beds out.  The top one is to do next, the bottom one is cut and the stake drives from this side.  The other two are the tail ends of the beds which drive from the opposite side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the flyshaft ready for having the flats for the stakes machined on it.  The slightly longer shank at the left hand side is because as well as the eccentrics, this part of the shaft has to carry the governor rope drive pulley as well.  The stakes are rough machined and I've given the flywheel a coat of black paint.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 23/05/2007 : 07:09
I had a serious look at the elliptical chuck last night, I was bothered by the fact that it has a wobble.  I've decided that it's not caused by my new chuck back but is due to warping of the castings over the years and simple damage caused by bad handling.  Actually it's not a big problem because if the stock is mounted on the chuck and then plain turned true the chuck functions perfectly.  I'm afraid the bug has bitten and the next thing I want to do is make an eccentric cutting frame to go with it.  If any of you remember the old Spirograph toy for kids, that's the sort of pattern of cutting you can follow with the two together.  It would be nice to stop refurbing and actually make it do something!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2007 : 07:39

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every picture tells a story.....  I don't often turn the cutting oil on but when I do I am always reminded that I have been promising myself I'd level the Harrison lathe properly for 12 years. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the answer.  God knows why but I cracked yesterday and made four 7/8 whit levelling screws and did the job properly.  As you can see from the top pic the oil isn't pooling, it's quietly draining away into the sump.  I feel a lot better!  Now I'd better turn a test bar and make sure I haven't disturbed the settings.  I'll leave it to settle in for a week and then do one.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2007 : 16:36
I've had workmen in and out all day in the shed so nothing done.  I've just been following the4m round, sweeping up and shutting doors, sooner they've finished the better.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 25/05/2007 : 17:56

I got mail today......  Here it is, we need more people chipping in and pointing out my mistakes, that way everyone learns!

Dear Stanley
I've been following with interest your rebuilding of the ornamental lathes. Now you've got round to one of the ornamental chucks I've got a couple of questions? You refer to it as an elliptical chuck, but looking at the photos and comparing it with the descriptions of similar chucks in works by Holtzapffel and Walshaw I rather think it's what is known as an eccentric chuck. From your description of it's construction I think I would agree that it was a one off particularly in respect of the two brass discs. The engraved numbers around the circumference puzzle me, why 120, and anticlockwise? The "foundation" plate looks as though it can only be read from the back and one wonders why you would need this facility when you already have the ability for accurate dividing via the head stock mandrel and the tangential gearing? Could the brass plate have been recycled from somewhere else? Possibly something horoligical? The thinking behind this was the early reference to Johnny Pickles work on tower clocks and the thought struck me that a single disk graduated to 120 divisions would be ideal for marking off dials at say 12,24, say for hours, 5,30,60, for minutes. The lead screw at 20 tpi seems a little odd, as far as I understand Holtzapffel standardised his leadscrews at 10 tpi. I would be very interested to hear your comments, As I am in the process of attempting to adapt a lathe of my own design for ornamental work I have followed your "work in progress" with great interest.
interestedly
Mick Goodrick

Mick,
You're right, it is an eccentric chuck but I called it elliptical when I started because I wasn't thinking straight and didn't muddy the waters in the pic titles and such, I reckoned that anyone who knew anything about it would twig.

You could be right about the foundation plate (I called it that because that's exactly what it is) because there is a hole in it which has been filled with a copper rivet and then faced off by hand. (Two hole actually when I looked at it again)  You're right in that the markings on the back are strange but no more strange than the 120 detents on the centre plate mounted on the CI slide. Three degrees to each detent sounds OK to me. Another thing about the foundation plate is that there is no way of indexing it unless you did the old Birch trick of putting a pawl on a bracket on the front face of the bed that can be used as a detent. As you say, I have no need of this with Johnny's 1927 lathe because the dividing gear will take in any amount of divisions. One thing I've never seen mentioned in any of the literature is the fact that you could also divide by using the screwcutting gears in reverse now that I've fitted a handle on the end of the leadscrew. All you need is an index on the handwheel and no, I'm not going to bother!

I doubt if Johnny ever had this chuck. It came to me by the same route as a lot of his bits and pieces but I know his stuff fairly well now and it's a one-off. It was threaded for an inch whit nose and I suppose it could have fitted a lot of lathes, that thread was common. Another feature of the construction is the way the brackets for the lead screw are made, they are literally bent to shape out of sheet iron and then riveted to the plate. I put them back the same way and even used the old rivets. The original leadscrew was 5/16 and 20tpi, I changed it to 3/8 BSF because that's 20tpi and I had the advantage of the die to finish the leadscrew thread off and the tap for the leadnut. 20 tpi is of course a very good number for an Imperial leadscrew and twice as sensitive as 10tpi so no problems there. The original leadnut was very strange, hand-made out of a piece of iron and then drilled and tapped to take a brass peg. Seeing as how I have a two jaw it was dead easy to short circuit that one.

Despite being put together properly it is out of true and must have been like that all its life, no big problem because you could either make a fresh set of noses for it with woodscrew, chuck nose etc and turn them true in the lathe or just not bother because if you faced the workpiece in the lathe it will be true apart from the junction with the chuck and you'd be cleaning that up anyway. When I can drag myself away from other stuff I'll put a bit of something in it and play with it, must make an eccentric cutting frame and then I can make some nice patterns!

My interest in all this is Johnny and the two lathes. If it drags me towards OT I shall resist it because I'm not into fiddling for the sake of fiddling. A bloke asked me the other day what was special about it and I told him that the best way to describe it was that you could take something round and make it flat! He seemed to be satisfied. As a matter of fact Johnny only delved into OT once, he made a table lamp and a cylindrical tobacco jar and incorprated most of the things the lathe would do. He then dropped OT and went back to what he wanted the lathe for in the first place, a handy and well-built screwcutting lathe with the ability to do light milling and gear-cutting for his clocks. He used it until 1950 when he got into turret clocks and needed a bigger lathe so he built the 12" lathe and gave this one to Newton. By that time he had a Myford and a round bed Drummonnd which he fitted up to some fancy screwcutting like fusee scrolls for his mates. Newton said that amateur clockmakers used to come up from London to collect scrolls that Johnny had made for them. Johnny was like that, he'd do something for the challenge and then lose interest. He made a set of epycycloidal chucks for the 1927 lathe and I think one for the 12" as well, as far as I know they are buried in the SM at South Ken somewhere. I know they existed because I've seen pictures. As I mentioned when I was on about the lathe on OG he made all his worm wheels for dividing 180 teeth and it wasn't until I got into it I realised he had clocks and dividing scales for microscopes and telescopes in mind.

Apart from all this complicated stuff, the 1927 and the 12" lathes are superb turners lathes. The belt drive makes the cut beautiful, we forget how gearing buggers the cut up. Newton once told me that a geared shafting lathe was a disaster for them, they got far better tool finish from belt drive. Until you've used one you don't appreciate it. Another thing I did was do away with V belts on the 1927 and put round leather belting on just to see what it's like. The built in slip is wonderful, a jam up doesn't matter if you make a mistake, you don't ruin anything and it doesn't half make you pay attention to sharpening your tools. Newton once watched me finishing a cutting tool off with a hand stone and he said has dad always did that. I told Newton that was because he was treadling his lathes when he started, that would soon tell you if the tool was sharp!

Enough, if you want to comment go onto the site and post responses to what I'm doing. Lots of people are following it and they are beginning to think I am a genius, not true! I need someone chipping in and keeping me honest....... I'll post this lot on the topic, it might get people going, I'm sure there are some OT blokes out there drooling over the lathes!

Best, S.

 

There's one more nthing just struck me.  When Johnny made the medallion machine he gave it to Newton and said 'Here you are, mek some sovereigns!'   I doubt if he ever used it apart from trying it out.  It was making it that interested him.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 25/05/2007 : 18:19

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've been having fun today!  Here's the flywheel on its shaft in the lathe getting staked on.  Anyone who is really observant will notice that the toolpost is different.  This is a Harrison toolpost that acceots toolholders already set for height, a great timesaver but one I have never used much.  It came into its own today because one of the toolholders accepts Morse taper and so it was easy to centre the flywheel without using the tailstock which would have meant the saddle being in the way.  Of course I could have taken the tailstock off and remounted it indide the saddle but this was easier.  The stakes are in and in theory all we have to do is true the wheel using the stakes.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here it is finished with the stakes cut off and filed up.  Now, before you ask, IT'S NOT TRUE!  I soon found out that it was a very fiddly job to get it dead accurate and as I have plenty to do and am not going to use it in a model I just got it somewhere near and  it is now an interesting paperweight which demonstrates haw flywheels are fixed on their shafts.  It's a cop out I know but life's too short.  I spent the rest of the afternoon tidying the pre-set toolholders up so I can make myself use them, no point in having them just sat there.  The ordinary toolpost will be handy for special jobs but for run of the mill turning this does away with fiddling with packings.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 30/05/2007 : 07:18
I've had a broken week what with one thing and another.....  You can't do a lot while the house is covered with sand-blasters and builders....  However, the eccentric chuck has been nagging me......  I decided there was no point in having an eccentric chuck without an eccentric cutting frame to go with it.  Before making that I decided to have a look at a box full of old Holtzapffel cutters to see what the fitting should be.  I found I had about 150 cutters but three different fittings, flat, small taper shank and a larger taper shank.  I have decided that the frame should be made to be able to accept all three which complicates the jiob a bit.....  I am working on it.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 31/05/2007 : 07:00

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it's not the Angel of the North but it is chopped out of a piece of half inch boiler plate and so I suppose is a sculpture.  It's the start of the body of an eccentric cutting frame to use woth the eccentric chuck.  I want to make a pretty pattern!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a sad little picture and an awful warning.  The cutting frame needs a lead screw to adjust the cutter so I decided to do my best and make it out of silver steel.  If I want a really good finish on the thread I screw cut it in the lathe to almost full depth and then run a die down it.  That's how I made this and when I'd finished it had developed this interesting but disastrous bend.  I must have left a bit too much metal to cut with the die and being silver steel, it is tough and being slender, the torque twisted the core and produced the bend.  Ah well, back to the drawing board and we'll take more off in the lathe. 




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 31/05/2007 : 13:27
I was going to make a very well timed but in bad taste joke, here, about the boring stuff that goes on in your shed and isn't it time you moved to another shed....I know you'd see the funny side of it, but perhaps one can of worms open, is enough to be going on with....!


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