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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 09:02
gearce, you can change the skin format back yourself. Skin changer is just above the recent  pictures on the front right of the home page. Nolic


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 10:28
"as a politico  once said " We are all in this together" - Frank

I exchange Christmas cards with a Socialist colleague from the 1980s who lives in the Home Counties, a Yorkshire lady of mature years with a lovely sense of humour. We used to have debates during the tea break with me playing devil's advocate while she put forth her socialist ideas. The comments and leg-pulling continue on the Xmas cards. This year I asked her how she was coping with being governed by the coalition and her reply ended with "...at least I'm comforted to know that we're all in it together".

Stanley's comment about a child's lack of a computer being "a handicap based on wealth" raises the question of whether it is often a handicap based instead on parental choice. I listened to an energy company man on the radio talking about families who say they can't afford to pay their electricity and gas bills and yet they never fail to pay their subscription to Sky TV.


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 11:59


quote:
Stanley wrote:
Catty. Any child who is not computer literate is handicapped in our modern society. Having a home computer reinforces this and enhances skills. If only the affluent can afford them we inroduce a handicap based on wealth. There are far too many of those about already so anything designed to make access to computers and services open to all gets my vote.No different than having books, pens and paper in the house.



How different is this:-Catty. Any young person who does not have a car is disadvantaged and handicapped in our modern society. Having a car reinforces this and enhances opportunity. If only the affluent can afford them we inroduce a handicap based on wealth. There are far too many of those about already so anything designed to make access to cars services open to all gets my vote. No different than having books, pens and paper in the house.

I would suggest that the use of computers in education has not helped, but has hindered, the development of the thought processes of most children. As the use of computers in schools has risen the literacy and numeracy of children has declined. Exam results confirm this as each year goes by. 

To some extent this dumbing down is irrelevant because there will be no employment available for most school leavers due to the fact that main use of computers is to replace manual labour by computers and computer controlled machines.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 13:30
Can someone help
Why did we do away with Grammar Schools, or Girls High Schools ?? Was this not the route for the poor to get into Higher Education.
3 boys in our street went to Grammar School and we lived in a very Poor Area, with regard to housing and owning material things.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 13:41
Catty, here you are showing your ignorance of modern education and modern children. The whole point of internet learning is that it is already happening despite people being deprived. At a conference on education last year we had the point brought home to us by a clip showing a boy from japan who wanted to learn to play guitar. He bought one on the internet, downloaded lessons from famous guitarists, and when he'd been playing non stop for about 6 months decided he would like to play Bach, sourced the music on the internet, downloaded the information to turn it into guitar tabs, then played the finished piece onto a short home video done in his bedroom...put it on you tube and it had over 60 million hits in one week. The man giving the talk compared this with how things worked in our day...so this untrained novice guitarist, who is a complete unknown goes to the BBC and says he wants to make a short film, it's highly unlikely anyone would want to to see him but just say they did, the next question is "you will need a camera crewe and a location?" "no, I'm just going to film myself in my bedroom." the punchline being " a complete unknown 16 year old, self taught amateur guitarist, playing a 6 minute video of himslef in his bedroom...who is going to want to see that?"...answer 60 million people!
In schools today there are internet links with other schools abroad, shared lessons, all sorts of benefits that make our children more aware of the whole world rather than just their corner of it. Internet learning gives kids the opportunity to learn at their pace, and opens up huge opportunities, Stanley is right about the less wealthy being deprived if they can't access this wealth of info. Can't see how any of this relates to getting a car..more like a passport!


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Bodger
Regular Member


892 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 13:49
Ay, tinternet as a lot to answer for, who would have heard of a chap from Barlick, Stanley Challenger Graham?, maybe in a 20 mile radius as a quare bugger, writing books and generally trying to be a clever dick


"You can only make as well as you can measure"
                           Joseph Whitworth
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tripps
Senior Member


1404 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 14:10
Belle - you are absolutely spot on there.   A beacon of positivity .   You are right about modern children. My grand daughter aged eight is fully 'digitised' , and has to submit her homework by email to the teacher, yet when I asked her what present she wanted, said without a moment's hesitation -" a Jaqueline Wilson book".


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Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 15:07
Dan is a term into an engineering degree at Liverpool University and as yet has had no source books recommended to him. However all lecture notes are online and added follow up reading is also internet based.

Fortunately we were able to buy him a laptop. Had we not he would have struggled with queing to use computers in the departmental or University library and would genuinely have struggled to keep up. Less wealthy and he would have been deprived. Nolic 


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 17:26
Computers can't teach !!!  are we talking about learning here are are we talking about being computer literate
People can learn from computers but only if they have the inclination to do so. How do we know the story of the boy in Japan is not fiction??  One of the problems of the internet is that we have to take everything at face value, sorting wheat from chaff spring to mind. And you can't do that as a child without guidance.
One of the reasons for submitting University/School course work online is so the Teachers/Lectuers can scan the material for plagiarism.

Edited by - frankwilk on 30/12/2010 5:53:46 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 18:27
Frank, I'm not referring to students submitting work on line but requiring the internet to access the full source material for their courses. Developments in education have meant that young people nowadays "need" computers to keep up with their peers in learning. Nolic


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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 18:59
Computers can't  teach, and it could be argued that teachers can't teach the way they used to because of computers, todays children are not prepared to sit in rows learning things by rote, they want to find things out for themselves, and that is the best kind of learning to get, a thirst for knowledge that does not require a "learned" third party to supply or withhold. Frank I do worry about your attitude to other's posts, do you really think a world reknown speaker in Education is going to invent a story to back up his argument.. of course we saw the clip of the boy playing his guitar at the begining and i am not surprised it had so many hits, he was fantastic.
The point he was amking was that whether we (the over fifties) like it or not, the world has already moved on, in a few years teachers themselves may be obsolete.


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 19:06


quote:
belle wrote:



The point he was amking was that whether we (the over fifties) like it or not, the world has already moved on, in a few years teachers themselves may be obsolete.

The end of teachers would be the end of education. The primary purpose of teachers is "teaching how to learn". No computer can do this, nor , these daycan few teachers.

It is the creation in a child of a mind that can assimilate knowledge in an organised and regulated way and  store that knowledge in a retrievable manner. 

 


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 30/12/2010 : 23:25
Plenty of people are self educated, yes there needs to be something to trigger that spark of wanting to know more, to learn,but in my experience teachers are just as likely to quench it as to fan the fires!

Edited by - belle on 30/12/2010 11:27:09 PM


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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 31/12/2010 : 01:59
With the learning material on the internet with instant access it becomes easier for students to obtain "teaching aids" at a much less cost than text books.


HERB


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 31/12/2010 : 05:25
The grammar schools still exist and as always only a minority of the poor get in.

Belle has it just right. Of course computers don't teach but they are an essential tool.  Ask any oil man or submariner who measures his position to 5cm how useful they are and then look to see who the people were who invented and improved the technology. Kids playing with computers.

Bodge you're right but make it 50 miles if you include Lancaster. Apart from anything else, the LTP would never have got the exposure it has now if it hadn't been for the internet.

Frank, you mentioned plagiarism. I see Lord Ashcroft is reported as having written a nice letter to Marion Hebblethwaite and included a cheque for £1500 for 'taking advantage of your research'. Marion wrote the definitive 9 volume account of the George Cross and its recipients. Now why did he do that?

Reading the biography of Frank Cousins who at one point was a long distance trucker. He tells a story about two drivers stealing a concrete bird bath which is almost exactly the same as my story about the driver and the grecian urn. Quite a coincidence. I know the grecian urn story is true and I think it's still in a front garden in Barlick. Drivers must have been more active collecting garden furniture than I realised!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
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