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Tizer
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22/03/2010
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11:53
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I wrote some time ago that I was intending to make my first attempt at building a computer and promised that I would relate the story here on OGFB. I bit the bullet about 10 days ago, ordered the components on-line from Dabs, received them last week and dived into action.
I ran into a problem due to being sent a faulty motherboard which Dabs replaced, so the following posts describe a lot of work sorting out what was wrong before we realised it was the motherboard. Read these posts if you want all the details. If you want just the description of how the PC was built without details of the glitch I've now written it up later in this thread. See it on page 8.
Edited by - Tizer on 06/05/2010 10:35:18
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Tizer
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Posted - 23/03/2010 : 16:01
Definitely in good hands and thankful for it Thomo! Don't worry about rubbing in the `painless' bit Stanley, Janet has kept me supplied with tea and she might let me have two biscuits if I get the machine working.
Time to report back. I think I've now exhausted the tests available to me and it looks to me like a faulty motherboard. Here are the details...
First, I did the `clearing CMOS' step using the jumper on the motherboard as described above just in case and because it's easy to do. It made no difference.
Then I disconnected everything except the 24-pin power and 12v ATX power cables to the board, the power switch lead from the front panel, and the onboard speaker. I took out the graphics card and one memory stick (from B1 slot, leaving the other in its A1 slot - these are the yellow slots). Plugged in the mains (motherboard LED lights up), switched on the power unit and pressed the Start button. Still nothing, no beeps, no fan. I disconnected the front panel switch and shorted across the two pins on the board but this made no difference.
Removed the other RAM module from A1 and did the same tests, with the same result.
I don't have another onboard speaker that I can easily connect to the motherboard but I think this is unnecessary. I reconnected the front panel speaker and tried again but this made no sound.
To make another check on the power supply unit and while the motherboard was in the stripped down state, I used a power supply from another computer and connected it to the new motherboard. Same result, no beeps and no sign of life other than the motherboard LED. This PSU is OK, it's the one from my current PC and is back in there and working OK now.
Finally, Pluggy had said it might be worth connecting a hard drive so I did this with the computer in the stripped down state but it made no difference.
I think the critical factor here is that the PC is making no diagnostic beeps at all, under any conditions, even though there is power to the motherboard and no extraneous gadgets to get in the way. The power supply unit seems to be OK. I can't be sure that the graphics and memory are OK but I've no reason to think they are otherwise at the moment. If one of them was causing the problem we should be getting the appropriate beeps. From what Pluggy wrote above, if the CPU/heat sink were not right we would probably at least have a fan running and beeps even if the system were very slow. So I'm thinking that the motherboard is at fault. I haven't put it down on any conductive surface, touched any bits I shouldn't touch or abused it in any other way. I've been earthing myself frequently and always before touching components, and I've been careful to ensure the power was switched off whenever working on the board.
I'll be interetsed to hear your views!
Edited by - Tizer on 23/03/2010 16:05:38
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Big Kev
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Posted - 23/03/2010 : 16:06
quote:
Stanley wrote:
Peter, I have mentioned this (Very diffidently) to Tiz on another topic but 3B at Nelson took my list of components, checked them for compatability and then built the computer for me, testing it and burning it in for 24 hrs using the same OS as I would be using. They charge £30 for this. Looks like a bargain to me..... I didn't check their prices on the components because I trust them, I doubt if there would be much, if any, saving by shopping round. One thing is certain, it is quick and painless. (Sorry Tiz, I know it's rubbing it in...)
Just out of interest; how much was it altogether?
Big Kev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. |
panbiker
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Posted - 23/03/2010 : 18:00
Glad you have tried another power supply Tiz and cleared the CMOS. Bad news that it still does not make a sound. There is one possibility that has not been covered yet and that would be a corrupted BIOS. Clearing the CMOS effectively clears the settings of the BIOS and reverts them to defaults which is a failsafe startup configuration for the BIOS. The BIOS itself could be corrupted which could cause the dead in the water symptoms you are experiencing. You will have seen in the manual the various methods of restoring or upgrading the BIOS. Unfortunately you cannot do this without the machine at least entering the POST test which is not happening. BIOS failure is a possibility although fairly rare.
As I see it from what you have described, it is looking more certain that the mainboard has failed for whatever reason. I say this as you must read the small print regarding the proper handling of said goods. I don't want to put a further downer on your situation but from the retailer (and the manufacturers) point of view they have no way of knowing how you have handled or treated the board during your build and may use this as an excuse to refuse a replacement, I hope not if you need to go down this path.
One thing that my son has just come up with (he is also engaged in IT support) was to check that the carrier for the cmos battery is not damaged or shorted out. if this was the case it would also account for your symptoms. As the system does not start the POST and no video output you have no way of checking the settings in The BIOS.
You are truly between a rock and a hard place at the moment and unfortunately running out of options.
Tizer, I have just re-read your original two posts and in the second post (item 6) you say that you ran the board up outside the case on the antistatic material that the board was supplied in. If this was the metalised anti-stat plastic bag you could have inadvertetly shorted the board when you applied power.
The anti-static bag is made of conductive metalised plastic and acts as a Faraday Shield to the board when packed inside for transit. The pink foam that is normally under the solder side of the board would be OK to run on with power but the bag could have done some damage, although you do say that the board has never booted and entered the POST in or out of the case, just a point to bear in mind if you have to discuss the finer points with the supplier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antistatic_bag
Edited by - panbiker on 23/03/2010 19:20:22
Ian |
Tizer
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Posted - 23/03/2010 : 20:12
Ian, the seating of the battery looks OK and there is nothing touching it to short it out. Thanks for the comments about the anti-static bag - I think there are probably many people like me who have been given the impression that the anti-static bag is `safe'. Often on PC forums you see people saying always put the item on or in the anti-static bag if you remove it from the computer. The motherboard arrived packed in the anti-static bag, which was then packed in cardboard and in its sealed box, but there was nothing else between the board and the bag so if you picked it up between your fingers you would be pressing both sides of the bag against the board. But anyway, as you noted, the PC hasn't worked even from square one.
I guess it's time to contact Dabs and ask them for a replacement.
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 24/03/2010 : 09:30
Peter and Kev. A complete service and at the risk of boring you I'll give the whole story and the prices. Hang on while I get the itemised bill etc.
The firm is 3B Systems Ltd Carr Road Nelson 01282-619534. It's run by three brothers and I dealt with just one of them. It's a big showroom with lots to choose from so we went to the standard boxes, picked the best and here's the price and spec.
Base unit only, no periperals. DIY kit £545, fully tested and built, ready to run, £575.
Intel Q9550 chip, Asus P5QL-Pro MB, 4Gb DDR2 800 RAM, 1Tb 7200 Sataii HDD, 32 in one card reader, Internal 8Gb sound, 1GB DDR3 PCI-X GF GT240(16X), 20X +/- DVD rewriter and dual layer. 10/100 LAN, USB 2.0.
I wanted one or two mods so what I asked them to do was to dit the best RAM, so they upgraded to Corsair and that cost £19. RAM is very cheap at the moment so I asked for an extra 4Gb Corsair which cost £85. (I've never seen a PC spoiled by too much RAM!). I wanted an extra HDD so I can keep data separate from OS so another 1TB 7200 HDD for £70. Total was now £749. Expensive when you look at best buy prices but I'v never worried about first cost. What I wabted was the best available without going into the silly realms of gaming boxes. I think that's what I have got. Silent running, very very fast, I can tell by the way it handles my programmes. I'm very pleased.
Seeing as I was in the Goodie cave I also bought a 1.5TB Samsung external drive for back ups at £97, an 8gb pen drive at £22 and a Logitech w/less keyboard and mouse for £27. Final total £895 knocked out of the Funeral savings.
I'll be interested to hear what you think about the outlay and the results. It won't bother me if you say I could have done it cheaper so be honest with me. My shopping mode is to find someone I trust, give them my problem and accept what they say. Very quick and efficient and so many times I have been struck by the fact that it might be slightly more expensive but the best PCs I have owned were bought this way. By the way, the backup PC I chose to keep is the IBM Activa which cost £1,000 many years ago but which still runs silent and rock steady even though it shows its age in speed.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Tizer
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Posted - 24/03/2010 : 09:33
Presumably you bought a copy of Windows too and to access all your RAM it would have to be a 64-bit version?
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Big Kev
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Posted - 24/03/2010 : 09:49
quote:
Tizer wrote:
Presumably you bought a copy of Windows too and to access all your RAM it would have to be a 64-bit version?
I would have hoped that "fully tested and built, ready to run, £575" would include an OS...
Big Kev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 24/03/2010 : 09:59
No, I already had XP, I bought it to use on the original FM but for some reason it didn't like it so I went back to W2K, I knew XP would come in handy one of these days. Don't know anything about 64 bit, all I know is that it works!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Tizer
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Posted - 24/03/2010 : 11:39
As I understand it, the 32-bit operating systems that we have all been using in the past can use up to 3.2GB of RAM maximum (note that is 3 point 2, not 32). If you put in any more RAM than that you won't benefit from the extra above 3.2. You have to use a 64-bit OS to access more than 3.2GB. But it probably doesn't matter for you - you've got 4GB so you'll be able to use 80% of what's available. If you put in any more RAM you'll have to go to 64-bit or you'll be wasting your money. All this I've learnt in the last week so I hope someone more knowledgeable will give their view!
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Big Kev
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Posted - 24/03/2010 : 12:32
Sounds about right to me. At least the extra 4GB was only £19. Unless you have the 64bit version of XP, highly unlikely though as FM1 would have been a 32bit machine...
Big Kev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 25/03/2010 : 06:49
Kev, the upgrade to Corsair on the original RAM cost £19, the extra 4Gb was £85.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 25/03/2010 : 06:53
PS. Kev, out of curiosity I looked up XP Pro and it's a 64X programme so I may not have wasted my money.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Big Kev
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Posted - 25/03/2010 : 07:36
There are 2 versions of XP Pro, a 32bit and a 64bit
If you right click the "My Computer" icon, on your desktop, and choose properties. Under the General tab it will show what version you are running.
32 bit will show Microsoft XP Professional version ????
64 bit will show Microsoft XP Professional x64 Edition version ????
Edited by - Big Kev on 25/03/2010 07:45:09
Big Kev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. |
Tizer
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Posted - 25/03/2010 : 12:12
Kev, am I right in thinking that if Stanley has 64-bit XP, or if he gets it, he will have to be sure that everything else on the PC is 64-bit capable? But being new stuff I suppose it probably will be.
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Big Kev
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Posted - 25/03/2010 : 12:36
There may be some compatibility issues. Drivers etc.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_x64faq.mspx
Big Kev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. |
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Building my own computer
