Visit the historic Lancashire Textile Project with over 500 photos and 190 taped interviews|2|0
Go to Page
  Previous Page    1  [2]  3  4  5  6   Next Page  Last Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
Replies
Author
Go to Page
  Previous Page    1  [2]  3  4  5  6   Next Page  Last Page
 
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 04:30
Catty, Mr Papandreous may need your input. I listened to him wriggling on the hook this morning on World Service about the Greek financial crisis. It will all become clear shortly but not a good outlook.

There was an interesting little snippet later in the news. Because the personal photographers originally intended to be paid for by the Civil Service are now to be financed by the Conservatives, none of the resulting pics can be used on government web sites. I think this applies to other official publications as well.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 09:49
I've detected a flaw in the reasoning behind the Big Society idea proposed by our mighty leaders, Batman & Robin. A government minister quizzed on the Today programme this morning was outlining the conditions under which members of the public would be allowed to provide an alternative to a government service. He said that the alternative would have to be "significantly cheaper than the present service". So if I put forward a well-prepared and feasible proposal for an alternative way of providing a service that is of much higher quality than the present service it would be rejected unless it were "significantly cheaper". The Goverment seems to be going down the supermarket path where `better' means `cheaper'. I know we have to make savings but providing a better service in one area will often cut costs in another. For instance a higher quality police service would cut down on crime which would have many cost-saving effects, not least in prisons. To quote a trendy phrase, the government needs to `think outside the box'.


Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 12:07
They also need to realise that the accountant's bottom line isn't the best measure of either utility or value for money. I heard a ministsre saying that CAB was a good source of help to replace some of the small local based vounterr organisations that are folding. Excuse me but didn't I hear that funding for them has been frozen?


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 12:13


quote:
Tizer wrote:
 I know we have to make savings but providing a better service in one area will often cut costs in another. For instance a higher quality police service would cut down on crime which would have many cost-saving effects, not least in prisons. To quote a trendy phrase, the government needs to `think outside the box'.

You are spot on there, Tizer. However what we need besides a higher quality police service is a justice system that works for "the people" and not just for the lawers.

The current system is that we, the general public, pay for a police force to catch criminals who are then sometimes rapped over the knuckles for being bad boys and even some times subjected to a small amout of money being taken from them. On a few occasions they are sent to jail. But al the cost of this is passed on to the us. We pay for the the criminals to live comfortably inside prison or outside prison and we also loose the money tied up in the goods that are stolen or vandalised, and in some cases have to live a diminished lifestyle as a result of injury or even a death.

After seeing a few "Police Action" programmes, whilst channel hopping, one thing that sticks out a mile is the amount of time and effort put in to catch criminals, be they young learners or even old experienced time served ones. Another  thing that sticks out a mile is how few are actually punished adequately enough to prevent them commiting further crime.

After  a car chase involving a couple of police cars and  four policemen, another police van and two more oficers, to take prisoner away. and a recovery wagon, and yet another officer to take away the car, the Criminal is issued with an £80 fixed penalty fine, and the cost of getting his car back from the police pound.

It is all farcical. If the government got its act together it could make the penalties fron commiting crime pay for the police force, pay for the criminal judiciary, pay for the building and staffing of prisons (and sufficient of them), pay for the running of the prisons and also oblige the criminals to pay restitution to their victims. The criminals should be imprisoned until they have worked off their debt to society and their victims, by what ever sort of work is needed in the country at the time.

Then we might see less crime.

We could then look upon our country as civilised.

On the other hand  one could ask does the current system exist purely in order  that a strong brutal police force is to hand  to put down political riots and civil disturbance and generally keep a subservient populace in the face of government corruption.

 

Edited by - catgate on 17/11/2010 12:20:40 PM

Edited by - catgate on 17/11/2010 12:22:19 PM


Every silver lining has a cloud.


Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 13:14
I can only see one real flaw in Cats remedy. Would it not promote Gangs  to raise the money to pay for the up keep of their Leaders/Members thus increasing crime. I don't know just a theory !"!!



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 16:07


quote:
frankwilk wrote:
I can only see one real flaw in Cats remedy. Would it not promote Gangs  to raise the money to pay for the up keep of their Leaders/Members thus increasing crime. I don't know just a theory !"!!

I wasd thinking that the gang members would also be in prison and paying off their own debts, because we would have a police force that was  not spread like boarding house margarine, as we have at present.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 16:29
Catty, occasionally I watch one of the coppers type programmes and the same thing strikes me. 'Released without charge', suspended sentence or totally inadequate fine. I'd be interested to see a comparison between the heaviest fines and what one of the miscreants spends on booze in a week. I think I'm turning into a Tory....  Oh God!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 16:51
"I think I'm turning into a Tory....  Oh God!"  - Stanley

Perhaps a Socialist-Tory coalition has formed inside your brain! Might even be a bit of Lib-Dem lurking there too. Very fashionable at the moment.


Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 17/11/2010 : 18:06
Something that attracts my attention most days is the peculiar way  people seem to like a dichotomy. They seem to feel that that is how it should be.

There seems to be a need to be separate every thing into black or white (if you will excuse any racial connotation that this expression carries with it).

The population has been conned into the belief that "if you are not for us you are against us". When in fact every shade between black and white exists in all things (apart from gypsy horses).

So you need not apologise Stanley, you are just reaching a more mature view!!!!! It is a pity that more do not do the same, but earlier (by a good few years).


Every silver lining has a cloud.


Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 18/11/2010 : 06:42
You're right Catty but in truth it's always been there. That's why I hate tribal politics and unthinking adherence to a Party Line. Think of the number of matters that should really be debated without the Party Line. Our legal and political systems are too adversarial, one thing is certain, what is needed at the moment is cooperation not in-fighting. This is why I often think that the only way to avoid the 'tribal' effect is to remove certain jey areas from politics altogether. Health, Education, Energy all seem to me to be too important to leave to tribal politics.

I see that Sarah Palin has come out of the closet about running for the Presidency in two years time. The scary thing about this is that even though she is obviously not presidential calibre, if she is taken up by money men and financed she could do it on a wave of protest and once in the Wuite House would be a pawn of her backers. Of course it can be dangerous. This was how Thatcher got power but the peoblem was that once she got there and found her feet she was stronger than her backers. Scary!

Quantas want 40 replacement engines. Funny that the other airlines aren't going down that route, yet. Quantas standards higher? Or some sort of finessing for financial gain? Tough on Rolls shareholders but in the short term, lots of work for the shop floor.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 18/11/2010 : 09:14
''.........we, the general public, pay for a police force to catch criminals....''

 
Only partly true.  We also pay them to prevent crime.  Thus, they have at least two roles.  To prevent crime and then to solve crime and so secure justice for folk.  This is the dichotomy (sorry!) in many public services.  Are the police about crime prevention or catching wrongdoers?  Are the fire brigade about fire prevention of putting out fires?  Is the NHS about health promotion/illness prevention or curing people?  If it's always the latter, then you can argue they must be poor at the former (unless you don't think anything should be spent on prevention and we are simply reactive).  And also there may be an argument that societally is often cheaper, though organisationally (at least initially) expensive (which touches on Tizer's point).

 
Essentially, the focus has to be one of balance, the appropriate mix of prevention and cure; the use of the best evidence from evaluation of all interventions; and please some honesty from politicians in saying the difficult thing on occasions so challenging societal perceptions.  Slogans like 'Prison works!' are daft - works how?  In securing justice? In preventing crime? In providing reassurance? In rehabilitating? 

 
Richard Broughton



Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 18/11/2010 : 09:42
Richard, it's a problem isn't it. In the case of the police, if reports of labour cuts by Chief Constables are correct, we are embarked on a social experiment which may give some clues about boots on the ground and crime prevention. Evidently the first to go will be the PCOs.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 18/11/2010 : 10:03
The library in our nearest small town is under threat of possible closure so we are taking out as many books as possible to boost the numbers! The librarian suggested we also go outside and come back in because we are automatically counted at the door. Now we are told the municipal rubbish dump may be closed which will mean a much longer journey, bigger queues, more petrol burnt. Perhaps I need to create more rubbish to convince them we need the dump!


Go to Top of Page
Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 18/11/2010 : 10:06
Tiz, are you taking the books to the dump? It seems to me that dumping them is not a good way to show the County that the library is in demand!!  Nolic


" I'm a self made man who worships his creator" Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 18/11/2010 : 10:23
One point here lets just take
 What level of expertise do you need to promote Crime Prevention ?? Do you need to have 30 years of service as a Police Officer or had to have solved 1000s crimes ??
Or do you need a basic understanding of locks and windows or instruction how to lock a door when you leave the House.
 I  think  leaflets through the door can do that job, it dosen't need a Front Line Police Officer, costing many millions of pounds across the country. To many variables on crime prevention to actually work out if PCOs have been of any value at all.
Crime and Punishment are out of kilter, I don't think people are interested in Rehabilitation most people want Revenge. A large amount of Revenge will work just as well as any form of Rehabilitation.
I wonder what would happen if the Jury could be trusted to hand out the  sentence rather than a bunch of corrupt MPs.

Edited by - frankwilk on 18/11/2010 10:26:42 AM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Topic is 167 Pages Long:
Go to Page
  Previous Page    1  [2]  3  4  5  6   Next Page  Last Page
 


Set us as your default homepage Bookmark us Privacy   Copyright 2004-2011 www.oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk All Rights Reserved. Design by: Frost SkyPortal.net Go To Top Of Page

Page load time - 1.406