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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  11/01/2009  :  06:04
New Year, new topic. If you want to see the old one do a forum search for same title but 2008.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 07:27
Frank, you're touching on something that I have been thinking about for a few days now. I think there is a BET article brewing in my head. I get the feeling we are being converted into battery chickens and being managed like the denizens of a call centre. It won't be long before the safety valve blows!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 09:01
All the lights were out at the Fosters Arms by nine last night, which is now a regular occurence. I saw the aforementioned medic on the news, now he really is a passionate prat. It would all appear to be part of a plan to de-Anglicise Britain. Meanwhile on the other side of the globe the North Koreans are doing a very fair job of trying to upset the Japanese, and if that kicks off we will all feel the draught. More of "our" lads coming home in caskets, time to bring them home alive instead and let the ragtops get on with it, just make sure they all stay where they are. Its a sobering thought that someday we may need our troops elsewhere, "Like here".


thomo Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 09:22
The smoking ban ...and the drinking restrictions being considered..are interesting attempts at "national health" when you weigh them up against the Govts attitude to canabis...which many see as a trouble free drug thanks to the Govt demoting it..even though it's been undemoted, the damage is done, many of my 15 yr olds friends have been using it since they were 12 or 14. we recently filled out insurance papers and one of the questions read "Apart from recreational cannabis use, what drugs do you take regularly?"  Sorry ...? we were a bit nonplussed with that one.
Point is, an epedemiologist friend of mine said that studies he and his dept had undertaken in the  80's, testing the "hippies" in Calafornia and other habitual cannabis users, showed Canabis to be 25 times more carcenogenic than tobbaco, even when it was eaten rather than smoked, it caused tongue, throat and stomach cancers...and we now know it has long term mental health implications. Talk about one step forward two steps back...why don't the govt get themselves better informed before meddling in these things! 


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 10:04
Thomo I feel I need to correct your post somewhat.
 It is " ragheads "  not  "ragtops"  and apart from that I tend to agree with you.




Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 10:08
Belle I was once taken into Hospital in America and one of the Questions then was do you use  " Recreational Drugs " the nurse fell about laughing when I asked her what she meant.
Seriously though it looks like if you have a passion for something and you can get air time on the box, it has every chance of becoming Goverment Policy



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 10:26
Tops or Heads, in this house we have a far less generous name for them, but given the political and social sensibilities of some of the members of OGFB we will keep that "in house". As for drugs "no thanks" I have seen at first hand the effects they can have as in Captive Girl from Essex existing as a Bar Slave in Hong Kong, to another young Woman being passed round a group of IC3s like a parcel in New Orleans. There were dozens of others and will no doubt by now all be dead.


thomo Go to Top of Page
HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 11:03
Thomo you have my vote on either term, both of which may be flattering!


HERB


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 11:50
I've said it before on here and I know it's not popular, but I would legalise all drugs.  Why coffee, tobacco and alcohol are legal and cannabis, heroin etc are not I do not know.  It's part of being human to get off your head, be it through the first rush of the espresso in a morning, the 4 pints and a bit more at a wedding, or a line of cocaine in a nightclub, or increasingly the dining room.  It's being human that enables us to enjoy this sense of altered reality - the cow that licks the cannabis plant hasn't a clue what's going on.

 
Legalising drugs means you can tax the things, you can control quality and provide advice on sensible intakes via health warnings etc.  They can be sold at pharmacies, supermarkets etc.  The 'War on Drugs' has arguably been the biggest public policy and health disaster in history.  Billion upon billions have been spent and not one jot of difference has been made, nor will it ever be made.

 
Take drugs out of the hands of the criminals and all that entails and sell everything over the counter.  There is a strong case to be made that the problem of drug use is a consequence of their prohibition.  Almost every expert agrees with this, even the Government's own advisors.  But it's a reality few politicians will countenance, or the public and so all advice is ignored.

 
If you want an example of 'waste' in public services then don't look at the salaries of Directors of social Care etc; look at the renumerations experts sitting on drugs advisory committees get.  They are routinely ignored by those who employ them.

 
Richard Broughton



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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 20:11
Wrong approach Richard. What you are suggesting is yet another "lowest common denominator" approach. Just because alcohol, coffee and tobacco are legal doesn't mean that their consumption is to be encouraged and nor does it mean that the consumption of more serious drugs should be encouraged. We should be aiming to improve the lot of people in this country, not sending them further into dependence on chemicals. First and foremost we must protect children and give them the opportunity to grow up free of illicit drugs, alcohol and tobacco until they reach an age when they can make a reasoned judgement for themselves. I believe that those children, once they grew up, would thank us for it and would not themselves choose for this country to go the way you are suggesting.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 22:21
Bruff and Tizer....Your arguements both contain the way forward.

I strongly feel that education is a key factor in this debate.

My parents brought me up to have a healthy respect  towards all the pleasurable "substances".

(and yes , I've used Cannabis ....and I can honestly say that until you have you cannot really be  in a position to comment.

It's really nice .and that's why people do it). 

I used the same approach with my own children . (now safely grown up  with families of their own)

The "right place and the right time" figure largely in this approach.

THIS IS NOT "encouragement " , but an acceptance that in the real world there are things that can give pleasure , but that must be treated very carefully.

Sadly ,it is a fact that  out of any given number of people , there will be a small percentage who  become dependent or addicted to shopping , sex, drugs, alcohol , train spotting ....even !

And to some extent that is easy to understand........but the effect that  the  obsessive behaviour  has on others, is what stops the majority from "offending", and we need to see that majority extended.

The situation we find ourselves in at the moment , is a strange one, and to some extent , artificial. 

Some "drugs" are legal, and controlled. Some are not. 

Political and vested interests are in play......Quick solutions (like "Legalization" ) and L.C.D. answers are not going to happen,..........BUT.....

Surely a start must be made on  removing the underlying causes of stress that make people want to "escape" .. .....(less and fairer taxes, ...?)

Education about responsible behavior should be encouraged, and rewarded.

In Short ....LESS STICK..MORE CARROT ! 

Soberly Yours

Bradders.

PS     I still think the odd custard pie doesn't go amiss ! 

 

 

 

 

 

 


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 18/03/2009 : 07:55
I agree with Richard and have done for a long time and I'm in good company, even the chief constable's association recommends it. Apart from the social cost of drug-related crime. it would be safer for the addicts, they would be getting pure and reliable strength drugs. Anyone who has studied the drug-related deaths will tell you that almost all are caused by adulterated drugs and variable quality. Just ask yourself, who would you rather have as a travelling companion on the Tube, a bunch of drunken young lager louts or a group chilled out on cannabis. Sure it's bad for them but that's their choice. We've tried the banning route long enough and it's time for a different approach but as Richard says, it's seen as political suicide.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 18/03/2009 : 09:01
and I'm in good company, even the chief constable's association

Funny company your keeping Stanley Laughing   I have no strong feelings either way about the use of Drugs. Legal or not they do seem to destroy a lot of young lives. We watched the programme last night on Holloway Prison some of the young girls needed help, which as a society we don't seem to be able to offer. " Care in the Community" sounded good,but without resources how is it supposed to work !!!

We can't go back to places like Calderstones etc, but we do need some way to treat these sad young people in our society.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 18/03/2009 : 09:15
Fred Goodwin is being made a scape goat for all of our ills at this moment. The spin against him is just getting out of hand. The Tory on the parlimentary committee yesterday asking Myners did his pension pot ( Myners that is ) cloud his judgement ??
I wonder if we started to take a close look at MPs and Ministers along with ex Prime Ministers Pensions we wouldn't be asking the same questions. What clouded MPs judgement when they voted themselves a big pot at the end of the day !!!.
Lets face it if an MP gets voted out it is because they failed, albeit in collective goverment but they failed. Why should they have a redundancy pot for being sacked ??
The whole lot stinks, look at Mandy he won't tell us how much the EU are still paying him. It is our money is it not ?? and Blair along with Maggie and the rest of them all still at the trough long after they have finished the expenses Gravy Train. 



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 18/03/2009 : 09:40
"Sure it's bad for them but that's their choice."
Stanley, as you stand on the kerb trying to cross the road who would you want driving towards you at 60mph - a "bunch of drunken young lager louts or a group chilled out on cannabis"? I would prefer it to be neither.

Brad, I've had my experience of illicit drugs. I was hijacked in my car by a heroin addict holding a knife at my ribs and threatening to kill me.In fact it was my wife's car and it could have been her instead of me. He probably started out on cannabis. It gives you a different view on drugs.

I'm not trying to stop people having fun - but you don't need drugs to have fun. And I do care about all those people who have become addicts. We've got to help them but we've also got to stop creating more of them from our children.


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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 18/03/2009 : 10:07
I think the important point in all this is the one that asks, why do people need to escape so badly that they use drugs or alcohol, in a dependant way, to do it.


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