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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 17/12/2010 : 17:01
Supporting people is a strange one, it is given to providers of Care and it has been exceptionally well funded. Most recipents just pass it on the " carer " who in many cases has built up a reserve of funds so they won't really feel to much pain. Again if we don't have we can't supply it. That is how we are in the mess we are in, we spent what we didn't have !!!



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 17/12/2010 : 19:06


quote:
frankwilk wrote:
....... we spent what we didn't have !!!

Rubbish!!!  

THEY spent what we didn't have. Not for our benefit, but for THEIR benefit and the benefit of the vested interests behind them.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 17/12/2010 : 20:54
Cat 

A lot of people spent what they didn't have.
OK the Goverment spent money they thought they may have had but found out, to late it was all a myth. I love it when people respond with Rubbish give us an alternative to what we have.
I am pretty sure the majority of people in this country want what is best for everyone !!!!

Edited by - frankwilk on 17/12/2010 10:11:31 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 17/12/2010 : 23:58
At 8.15 this morning (Friday)  I was out with "dawg"  , when  I met a young woman coming in the opposite direction. She was  dressed in a full Angel's Oufit ..... (Complete with white smock  , Huge wings , and a halo on a stick behind her head , ....the works! ).

I said  " If it snows today honey , you'll get lost "

She cracked up ,and  rushed past  towards a bus stop .....

I am NOT making it up ....it was quite surreal !

 

Edited by - Bradders on 18/12/2010 12:01:31 AM

Edited by - Bradders on 18/12/2010 12:19:14 AM


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 05:24
again write a song


HERB


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 06:51
Ted, from your mouth to God's Ear! Spot on. I don't know where everyone gets their stistics, Pendle Council say they face a huge cut this year, the government says it is half that. Daft as it looks it is the same syndrome Charles Webster wrote about in 'Hungry or Healthy Thirties', the use of selected average statistics where they proved the government's message. Some southern authorities 'face cuts' of less than 5%. There is plenty of money, it's where it is targeted and at the moment this is anywhere but those in most need.

Catty is right, the money was targeted in the interests of the large capital holders, the new Lords of the Universe, not the general electorate. It used to be the landed magnates and the aristocracy who held the power, the rise of industry after 1830 altered that balance and the tyranny we live under now is as bad as the Feudal System. The masters have changed but the attitudes are exactly the same.

I've been re-reading James Cameron, one of my heroes. He was possibly one of the greatest journalists this country has ever seen. I came across this paragraph in the last piece he ever did for the old News Chronicle a wonderful paper in its time. It was published on June 28th 1960.

"My own country appears to me to be governed  by a group, tactically efficient, wholly without moral imagination, which works on the simple theory that goods equals good. They are opposed, if that is the word, by another group whose current activities seem aimed at making socialism impossible in our time"

There is much more but I was struck by the fact that this fifty year old piece of journalism is as true today as when it was written. Perhaps that's one of the marks of good reporting. There is much more of course, a wonderful read, he was reporting on the events that shaped our world.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 09:51
Ted
Robinson pointed the way about 2 years ago with the waste in the NHS. No one took him on and that was a Labour Goverment. Blair tried to reform the NHS and failed. It is a monster it eats money and is very poorly run,and very inefficient.  North Satffs being an example 100s are said to have died whilst in the care of the NHS.
As for British Rail and other nationalised industries they were State subsidised it couldn't go on.
What I do know is it is better now than it was then. You always forget the poor service and the cost associated with it. How ASLEF and the NUR would hold everyone ( the Passengers) to ransom when they wanted to flex a little political muscle.
I do wish you would remove the tinted specs and look around, it's not that bad really.
I would bet that the majority of people on this web site are better off than their parents have ever been !!!
Not Majority But Everyone.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 13:37
Frank what colour  of  "tinted specs" are you refering to.....?

I always assumed , when anyone used the phrase , that they were  accusing the wearer of  being unaware of bad things. (as in "Rose- tinted")


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 15:43
Careful Brad, you may be getting a bit too complicated. I don't think Frank does metaphysical.

So, everyone's better off eh? Not majority but everyone. I don't think so. That's what the chief MOH said in the Thirties. Read Webster and get a glimpse of the truth!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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handlamp
Senior Member


1100 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 16:14
Frank, it's not the NHS concept that is at fault, it's the way that it is run. The North Staffs debacle is a case in point, the introduction of a, so  called, open market, and bringing in outside executives led to the problems there. Originally, in 1948 the system was run by doctors and NHS administrators, who had been running hospitals for years when they were charitable undertakings. As in all concerns there were good and bad operators but the introduction by politicians of all parties of whiz-kid management with performance related rewards really moved the organisation from good standards of care to a free for all. As that fine man ? John Major would say, let's get back to BASICS. and get the NHS run with a more localised system. It won't be easy, but surely, somebody like Gerry Robinson could come up with a system to cut out the dead wood in administration and get back to something like we had in 1948 with more local accountability.

As regards BR, any railwayman worth his salt cringes at what is going on today. Service to the public has one out the window. Only last week we had the Nottingham - Lincoln line closed for a shift due to a signalman not being able to get to his post at Newark. I'd be the first to admit that we had our problems with the unions you cite but they are still on going and will continue to be so. I can only reiterate, if BR had had the resources poured into it that has been spent on today's privatisation you would have had a perfomance far superior to today's. 


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 18:03
Stanley That is Rubbish and you know it. Everyone is Better off now than the 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s etc.
How can people fly to Australia and back now??  they couldn't do it in the 60s.
Health we live longer  now than we have ever done, dispute that as a fact. My parents never owned their own house yet all their Children do and Grandchildren do as well.
We all own Cars , we have good standards of living, we go on Holiday (my parents rarely did)

Ted  we now have millions more people who live longer (never mind what Stanley says, it is a measure of better off) that is a problem.The NHS is unfundable in it's present form it is really that simple, it was OK in 1948 but it isn't fit for purpose in 2010

Edited by - frankwilk on 18/12/2010 6:14:07 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Sunray10
Regular Member


557 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 18:37
I haven't even had the chance of a "slow connection" yet. Everyone say arrrrr poor thing!


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 19:55
It must have escaped your notice Frank ....(I cannot  imagine how ) , but this is an Open Forum....

There are upto 40,000 people a day  "watching" this site  , which is why one should  try not to say anything foolish....(I'm not saying that  you always do , of course...)

If you don't want a response to your offerings ,from certain members , maybe you could consider "posting"  them using  P.M. s  to a selected "mailing list"........eh!

 

 

 


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 18/12/2010 : 21:03
I do not want to spoil what might be brewing between you and Bradders, but I think I should quote a saying which was much valued by the youth of my era. That was " If tha tupps 'em at tuppin' time they'll lamb i'  lambin'  time".

The gestation period for the current debacle has been very long. It started in the early years of the 20th century and just gradually grew. It was known by various names as it developed... Socialism, Fabianism, etc.  It grew because it's opposition was either Capitalism or Liberalism ("benign" Capitalism). It flourished because it was able to use some of the then much preached Christian Priciples of charity, and caring for fellow beings, as fuel for its own ends.

The big let down was that most of the leaders of the new "ism" were not practical men but men (and women) with wide eyed dreams, supported by the hopeful  recipients of the promised golden future.

When all this started we were one of the industrial forces in the world. We had all the necessary raw materials and labour to provide the world with railways, textile machines, ships etc  As time has gone on the capitalist system has reduced this country to ruin by replacing labour with automated machinary and cheap imported labour to run it, whilst the socialist system has taxed anything and everything to keep the masses happy by giving them hand outs and free spectacles.

Things gradually got worse because those in power were begining to believe their own lies and started borrowing more and more money to fund their habit. This borrowing matter came to a head  when a way was found to keep this off the countries balance sheet, and thus (nearly) invisible, some time in Maggies days, according to legend.  From then on it escalated out of control aided, of course, by the lenders, who were, in addition, beavering away finding ever newer ways of enslaving the individual citizen in to personal debt.

So although you are correct in much of your observations about the spending of money on cars. houses, trips to Australia etc. it was all expense mortgaged to the future..... and that future is now with us. Not only does much of the nation have individual debt..  the nation as a whole has an enormous debt. created by the combined effects of Socialism and Conservatism. Neither of which is worth a damn....much like their protagionists in Westminster. It is questionable if it will ever be paid off.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 19/12/2010 : 05:29
Catty, I agree with much of what you say. Decline started in about 1870 actually if you get hold of a copy of Feinstein and Smee's wonderful volumes of economic statistics from 1855-1965. (Yes, I have the book, it's fascinating!) Consumer spending as a measure of 'standard of living' is a reasonable average but of course is skewed towards those who have money. It is no indication at all of quality of life.

Frank:"Bradder please keep your remarks to yourself when I address you respond by all means, but until I do keep your Nose out of my posts" You don't seem to understand that OG is an open forum. You cannot tell other members what to do. The boundaries are very clear and are carefully monitored, action taken when needed. This is a light touch and works when members cooperate. Please sit back and have a think, if nobody was allowed to add a comment unless directly addressed the site would be dead in a week.

"Stanley That is Rubbish and you know it. Everyone is Better off now than the 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s etc." No Frank, it's not rubbish. Neither is Ted's post on the NHS. We all know that it is imperfect and needs improvement but Gerry Robinson's view was that the ConDem government is making the classic mistake, throwing all the pieces up in the air again instead of addressing the specific pockets of bad practice and eliminating them, long-term but in the end results in permanent improvement.The same applies to what is evidently your measure of being 'better off'. Even on a national average the gap between the rich and poor increased 10% in the first ten years of this century alone. Add to this the effects of high inflation in the basics of food, energy, housing and transport. The official inflation figure is about 4%, if you look at the basket of essentials, the one which best describes the goods and services the poor have to spend their income on it is nearer 15%, further damaging their position. Hence my assertion that everyone is not better off.

Don't sit there shouting rubbish and telling people to keep off your lawn, back up your statements with some facts. Prove to us all that you are right and the rest of us are wrong. 


Stanley Challenger Graham




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