| Author |
 Topic  |
|
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
|
|
 Posted -
16/05/2007
:
17:04
|
Questions about this subject keep cropping up amid closely related topics, so I thought it may be a good idea to expand on the subject. I will not go on about my qualifications to discuss Canal Boats so lets just give it a go and see what transpires.
thomo
|
|
| Replies |
| Author |
|
|
Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
|
|
Posted - 16/05/2007 : 18:45
Thomo - I have a very keen interest in this subject. Won't say too much at this stage, but our plans are to sell the house and go and live on a wide beam on the L&L so we can semi-retire. This probably won't be for a few years as we haven't got a mooring yet.Any info gratefully received. I take it that you're quite well up on the subject? I have Mike Clarke's book on the L&L - an excellent read. |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
|
|
Posted - 17/05/2007 : 06:57
Pugwash with the Red Admiral, one of the boats he built at LPM.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Invernahaille
|
Posted - 17/05/2007 : 12:18
What is the superstructure on the forward end in front of the accomodation? Thats the part that has the boats name on it in the picture.
|
Invernahaille
|
Posted - 17/05/2007 : 14:54
Hi Call,
the following is a website that will assist you to deal with your requirements. Hope it helps.
http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/liveaboard.htm
http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/liveaboard1.htm
|
belle
|
Posted - 17/05/2007 : 15:01
I have just found out that most of my mums anscestors were canal people, so i would love to know more about it all.
Life is what you make it |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
|
|
Posted - 17/05/2007 : 15:09
That, Invernahaille, is a small forecabin, designed to accomodate two youngsters. Entry is gained from the main saloon under a raised well deck and between the two water storage tanks. A small solid fuel stove is fitted and there is an hatch in the deckhead. Power for this boat is in the shape of a re-built 1937 Gardner three cylinder unit housed in a traditional engine room fwd, of the boatmans cabin. More on this to follow.
thomo |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
|
|
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 07:22
Red Admiral under construction at Lower Park Marina.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
|
|
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 09:40
Is it for sale? When was it built? |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
|
|
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 13:36
"Callunna", I doubt that "Red Admiral" is for sale and should it ever be so there will be a long queue at the owners door, also I would not dare to even guess at the asking price. If you are truly serious about living afloat, narrowboats do have a major advantage of "wide beamers" in that providing that the narrowboat is no longer than 63 feet, it will go anywhere on the UK Canal system. I will get back to you on this later. "Stanley" Nice pics, wrong boat. The boat depicted in build above is "Tom" Mr & Mrs Evans of Mirfield, the one before Red Admiral, Power unit is India built "Ruston Hornsby" twin. Pics of this and others to follow.
thomo |
Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
|
|
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 14:19
Hi Thomo - it's no wonder there'd be a queue as it's a fine looking boat.We've considered a narrowbeam (6' 10") and looked at a few but have come to the conclusion that it would be like living in a hallway. One of us would end up being chucked overboard by the other, or we'd mutually throttle each other. We're looking at 10' wide (the extra 3' makes a heck of a difference, for non-boating readers) and about 57' long. We're not bothered about being unable to access the canal network south of Northwich. It will be primarily a home & office, not a mode of transport, though of course we'd sail it along the L&L and other suitable canals. Here's a question that I can't find a satisfactory answer for in all the mags and books. You can buy a brand new widebeam "sailaway" (steel shell, insulation, panelling, plumbing, electricity, engine) for, say, £40k and put in your own galley and bathroom. Now, if I got a company to install a nice kitchen and bathroom in my house, I could get really nice quality ones for, say, £20k. So why, when a boat is built complete, does the cost rise to £90k or even more? Am I missing something? What on earth (or indeed, water) could cost an extra £30k?
Edited by - Callunna on 18 May 2007 14:20:44 |
Invernahaille
|
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 19:39
Callunna. May I make a suggestion. If you are thinking of going waterborn in the distant future (say 5 years) Have you thought of buying an old steel commercial Dutch barge from Liverpool and doing it up yourself. I think you can get a bare bones Dutch barge for around 3-5 thousand pounds
An average specification for one of these is as follows.
Vessel Type: Dutch Barge
Length (LOA): 20.60m or more.
Beam: 14.18m or more.
Draft: .50m
Air draft: 2.15m
Hull Material: Steel
Hull type: Flat bottom
Fuel Capacity: 600lt
Water Capacity: 1000lt
Holding Tank Capacity: 380lt
An example of one used as a tanker can be found on the following website.
http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=4
|
Ringo
Site Administrator
3793 Posts
|
|
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 20:43
Might be a bit of a tight squeeze in the Mile Tunnel in one of those!
|
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
|
|
Posted - 19/05/2007 : 02:01
Hi Callunna. I was going to add this bit later but in light of what has just been suggested I will lead with my right and say this now. "When it comes to boats, steer clear of Liverpool"! You asked about price differentials on bathrooms and galleys, I will answer this shortly. Now. I think this topic has some mileage and is well worth further expansion. First of all my knowledge of boats far exceeds my knowledge of the canals, this I will gladly leave to people such as Mike Clarke. Mike is one of lifes gentlemen, not pompous or overbearing, but a true enthusiast. When I use the term "enthusiast" I mean someone who has real belief in his chosen subject, not one momentarily and blindly enthusiastic!. I left Westons at Foulridge in 1988 and went to "Doug Moore Boatbuilders" in Barlick as Joiner/Boatfitter, This involved the fitting out of new shells and the re-fitting of old ones, involving; Carpentry, plumbing, electrics,gas fitting,painting & signwriting/artwork. During all of this, I became increasingly involved in the other side of the business,"Boatbuilding" and by 1993 I was invoved in all aspects of the trade from design to completion. Doug Moore had also worked for Aerospace, being involved in design for Hawker Siddely at Filton, my experience was mainly in marine engineering and aerospace. Mike Clarke was a regular visitor at the yard and always welcome. Another regular was Roger Lorenze, Marine Surveyor, who with his brother Paul had also built boats. Now, all of these men knew what they were about and a breed of boat had evolved that put our yard at the top of the trade. By 1996 we were rated as joint top boat builders in the UK, Odd really, because the other half was a boatfitter not builder, at that time we build two shells for him, both Gardner powered, one for himself and one named "Slender Delta" for a Concorde Flight Engineer, the former boat being sold soon after for app, £95,000. Enough of my past, lets talk boats. The shape and design of a boat depends on its purpose in life, this is where traditionalists and people like me tend to fall out a bit. Traditionalists talk "Josher" fine! Bluff or Apple cheeked bows. These were working boats pulled by horses and designed around these requirements. The bluff rounded bow, held within, the space required for accomodation and should the boat be required to stop, the shape no doubt helped, there being no other alternative, as in going astern. British Waterways came up with a design that was friendly to the aged canal system, but not at all aesthetic. Doug came up with a design that encompassed the best of all worlds, "And" it steered just as well going astern as ahead. Our boats were truly "Handcrafted", not made up of prefabricated sections. A close study of pictures of these craft will show that there are no Straight Lines, all planes have a gentle curve that is not only pleasing to the eye but very functional. When Doug quit the trade, he did so on a boat, built at Barlick that could go anywhere and turn heads "Firefly". My time working for Doug was probably the happiest time I have known, no two days alike. The basics of a sound boat start with design and then the construction spec. 10. 6. 4 being the accepted minimum. That is; 10mm bottom plates, 6mm hull side plates and 4mm cabin plate, I will do a typical spec drawing later. SO, you want to live on a boat, please take your time over this, we heard this often at the yard, and our advice was always, "Try it first" have a holiday on one, better stil, several, on different boats, in different areas. Most of the people I know who live on boats also have a home base of some kind, Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to put you off, just give it a great deal of thought. I recall saying during a long wet summer a few years ago, "If it goes on like this, i'm going to build an ark" Very nearly changed the name of the business. "Arkwrights" This was as some of you know interupted and finally killed off by thieves, amongst the items stolen were several hundred photographs of boats that I have worked on, built, decorated or known. There are a number of established boatbuilders in UK, most of these are in the north or midlands. "Pickwell & Arnolds" at Todmorden are popular in the wide beam market. "BUT" and here we go, there are some that will build you a "Sailaway" boat in three weeks. Please, dont go there, End product is "Crap". Why does a bathroom and kitchen (galley) cost more on a boat?. The internals of a well built boat are not usually rectangular, as in a house, nor is any part of said boat normally connected to main drains, gas. electricity etc,. Everything that goes into a boat has to fitted into a non flexible size and shape. Luxury has to be compromised by practicality, a galley sink or wash basin waste outlet may be above the water line, a bath or shower will not, What is your prefered fuel. Most kitchen/bathroom fittings can be addapted to fit in a boat, but lets look at the basics. A boats safety depends greatly on stabiliity, this is influenced on calm waters ie, canals by the disposition of bulk containers of liquids, the ideal position of such is on the centreline. The ideal position of a fresh water tank is under the fwd well deck and the fuel tank built into the "Swim" at the stern, this fuel tank should hold at least sixty gallons and have a draw off level app 2 inches above the level of the tank bottom, when the boat is not in constant use the fuel tank should be kept full. The water tank is preferably stainless steel, with the filler in a sheltered position and vent at the highest point. all tanks must be fitted with a shut off valve at the liquid exit. the best internal layout for a boat in respect of services is a passage that runs fwd to aft,be it port stbd or centreline, under this can be run easily accesible pipework, if you get a leak, you dont want to have to rip the bed out. Water needs to be pumped to the taps, a two pump system being the best, one providing cold water, the other the hot. If the system is designed properly and a pump fails, you can still live with it. This weekend I will continue to try and explain how it all comes together. Remember the more you know now the better your experience, and it can be fun.
thomo |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
|
|
Posted - 19/05/2007 : 07:27
Peter, have you an address for the Evans'? I've lost touch with them, can you email me? H, listen to Peter, he knows what he's on about..... What was that Grey boat we had in that cost an absolute fortune, everything on it was electronic?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
|
|
Posted - 19/05/2007 : 10:13
Good Morning Stanley, I will have a dig a nd see if I can find the address. The grey boat, Soda something or other, came in for valeting, belonged to a soft drinks manufacturer, yes and all the external fittings had been turned from stainless steel. The trouble with advanced electronics is that they dont like moisture and even in the best of boats there is always a degree of that. "Soda Valley" that was it.
thomo |
|
|
|
|
Canal Boat Corner
