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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  15/12/2007  :  07:03
I thought it might be a good thing to have a topic devoted to this important subject.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 07:17
Have you been following the progress of the climate change negotiations in Bali?  Something quite remarkable has happened.  The US has been forced to assent to the concensus view of the majority even though they came to the table fiercely opposed to many of the elements on the table.  True, the concensus has had to water down the proposals slightly, but I think this is a very important moment in world affairs.  There have been many advances, the two main ones are that India and China are now tied in to the world effort and the US has agreed to match it's progress on reduction of carbon consumption to that of the rest of the world.

During the conference the US blocked a proposal to subsidise energy saving technology in developing countries like India.  One by one the other delegates rose to their feet and told the US delegation that they had been blocking progress all week and they should either agree or leave the conference.  At one point they were booed.  Eventually the US realised they couldn't block the progress and acceded. 

Important to realise that the US delegation was the mouthpiece of the White House and not the people.  It will be interesting to see how this plays in America and what effect this success will have on their attitude in other forums.  In effect, US presidential arrogance has been shattered.  And a good thing too!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Doreen
hippies understudy


429 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 09:18
 Stanley i love you,
Thankyou so so much for posting on this subject, they are talking in bali about reducing by 20 per cent in 20 years!!!!!!!!!!! in 20 years at  this rate there wont be anything to save.
 But i think the sooner something is put into accion ,and the more countries commited to some form of saving the world the better, it would be the first rung on the ladder for what must come later.

Did you know that China has banned all normal light bulbs, they are no longer obtainable, only energy saving ones  now.


Dordygail

always the one to make the best of things.

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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 09:22
What I don't quite understand is,  a couple of years ago it was all CFCs making a Hole in the Ozone layer, now we seem to have changed track !!!!




Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 10:08
and the irony is they all flew in and all flew out...the hot air they make talking emptily about this subject will be enough to finish us off! For starters lets have the light out that light up the houses of parliament every night!


Life is what you make itGo to Top of Page
Sue
Senior Member


4201 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 15:08
There are afew lights could be turned out on motorways too. I know it is supposed to prevent accidents but there are hundreds of miles without them. I find the problems come when I change from driving in the light to driving in the dark, it takes a bit for the eyes to get accustomed

 Sue


If you keep searching you'll find it Go to Top of Page
handlamp
Senior Member


1100 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 15:58
Well said, Belle. It's time everybody was serious on climate change. Our beloved leader warmed the globe up somewhat by his ridiculous appearance  to sign (?invisible ink) the EU new constitution which isn't. Me thinks the politicians could help considerably by refusing to fly all over the place signing things. Surely if a nation agrees to something in public its representatives don't need to go junketing in person. In this IT age can't out leaders agreeto make use of the facilities opened up by the internet? The EU could set an example for a start.

Edited by - handlamp on 15/12/2007 4:00:15 PM


TedGo to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 16:29
Hi Ted
I agree to a certain extent, but I think that at these get togethers a certain amount of networking does take place, which is useful !!!.

I suppose to help save the planet we should shut down the internet. Just think of all the people  around the world now sat at their computers with the printer powered up, maybe a lamp turned on etc. And all logged onto OGFBSmile

If you think about it there is not that much we as people can do about global warming, I read somewhere cows are responsible for a lot of the problems. Maybe we should all become vegans to save the planet ?? It is so difficult it has to be done by Goverments The French will just point to Nuclear Power they don't need wind turbines etc so they have a head start when it comes to targets etc.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Doc
Keeper of the Scrolls


2010 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 16:36
Plans have just been agreed to build the worlds largest offshore wind farms around the British Isles, these will be in the North sea. Irish sea and off the west coast of Ireland in the atlantic

more info here http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c904d550-a6c3-11dc-b1f5-0000779fd2ac.html


TTFN - Doc


Due to the current economic climate, the light at the end of the tunnel has now been switched off.
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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 16:54
Looks impressive Doc,  just wonder how much  Hot s/by plant will be required, or even spinning reserve for when the wind doesn't blow??

Will this be free power or much cheaper power ??  No feedstock is required so it will just be a case of initial cost plus maintenance. Don't get me wrong I agree that Global Warming is taking place I just think the Goverment have jumped on the bandwaggon and used it as an easy means of raising taxes. Which then leads to the rest of us being sceptics



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 17:16
I've been shouting about renewable energy ever since the Water Act of 1989 which imposed a charge on anyone using flowing water to run a turbine for power.  As Newton said at the time, "we were only borrowing it!"  They changed this ruling eventually but for a long time you were charged for water usage in a turbine just as though you were abstracting water.  Crazy.  The only good thing about the debate is a story John Robinson told me about the debate in the Lords which he went to hear.  One old buffer stood up and made this contribution; "My father always told me that there were two things you should never disturb the crust on.....  Port and the Septic Tank!"

We can all do something about action on counteracting the effects of climate change. do what small things we can at home and get vocal!  As Arlow Guthrie said, "If you want to end war you gotta sing loud!"

What all the commentators seem to have missed is that when faced with the combined voices of the UN, the EU and the rest of the world the US backed down.  When did you last see that happen?  I think it's the first crack in a very big wall, they are beginning to get the message.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Doc
Keeper of the Scrolls


2010 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 17:46
When I was out and about sailing earlier this year, quite often we use to sail through a large wind farm off the Essex coast, just outside the Thames estuary, I don't know exactly how many turbines there were, maybe seventy or so, of which only about half of them were ever seen turning, the others were locked off apparently awaiting maintenance.



TTFN - Doc


Due to the current economic climate, the light at the end of the tunnel has now been switched off.
Click here to make a donation and help support this site and keep it advert free 

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Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob


3044 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 19:24
This is a subject dear to my heart and I would love to blather on at length about my views and suggestions.

Fortunately for you all, dear readers, I am short of time at present so suffice to say that we hope to have a wind gennie on the boat but have decided against solar panels for now because the energy taken to manufacture them would far exceed the energy they would generate in the short to medium term.

I'm heartened by the news from Bali.

I'm also pleased that the small wind turbine on Weets has been given the go-ahead. The Nimbys don't like it, but I reckon the sight of a devastated planet will upset their descendants even more.Go to Top of Page
Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 15/12/2007 : 21:02


quote:
Doc wrote:
When I was out and about sailing earlier this year, quite often we use to sail through a large wind farm off the Essex coast, just outside the Thames estuary, I don't know exactly how many turbines there were, maybe seventy or so, of which only about half of them were ever seen turning, the others were locked off apparently awaiting maintenance.

I used to sit in my mother in law's kitchen at Herne Bay (across the estuary from the Essex coast) fascinated by them.........


Big Kev

It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. Go to Top of Page
Doc
Keeper of the Scrolls


2010 Posts
Posted - 16/12/2007 : 01:38
there is a good piece in the times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3056722.ece


TTFN - Doc


Due to the current economic climate, the light at the end of the tunnel has now been switched off.
Click here to make a donation and help support this site and keep it advert free 

  Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 16/12/2007 : 05:48
H , "The Nimbys don't like it, but I reckon the sight of a devastated planet will upset their descendants even more.Go to Top of Page"   Quite right.  Besides that, they don't seem to realise that compared with the age of the landscape, the turbines are only temporary......  When you.ve got the money to do it, consider heating the boat with a heat exchanger.  Basically a small refrigeration unit that tries to freeze the canal.  You get more energy out than you put in.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
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