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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 11:10


quote:
belle wrote:
I can't see the argument here..why would anyone want to drive faster than 20 miles an hour in built up traffic, cars parked both sides, the chance of any pedestrian suddenly stepping out...surely we shouldn't need to argue for the right to mow people down?

Generally  no one can drive at 20 mph in built up traffic, its speed is lmuch less than that. So that is not the point of the argument. The point is that there are many times during, the 24 hr period, that the traffic is either not built up or is even absent altogether and at those time it may be safe to drive above the present speed limit.

The driver is legally bound to "drive with due care and attention" at all times, and so if he is assumed to  be able to do this then he should be allowed to do so. (He can see what the current road conditions are like far better than someone  sat in an office miles away could, many months ago, when the committe promulgated its dictum.)   If, however, he demonstrates he does not have this ability he should be stopped from driving totally. 


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 11:56
I don't mind 20mph limits on congested urban streets with cars parked either side - you can hardly drive at 20mph anyway in such streets. I'm talking about 24/7 20mph limits on main commuter roads entering towns where 30mph is more sensible and there are `lollipop'men/women to stop the traffic when needed. If you have a 20mph limit on these roads then you increase congestion throughout the town and the councils need to prepare for this by making changes elsewhere.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 12:44
Peter , I should perhaps post this on your Science Page , but in the light of this discussion , here is appropriate too !

I used to travel regularly on the Autobahn from Munich to Stuttgart.(Late 60's)...when traffic increased in volume there were always hold -ups in certain places , for no apparent reason.

The authorities filmed the area from the air and I saw a speeded up version of the film .....The problem was seen to be speed reduction on hills , having a "knock -on effect".....  The traffic flow looked like the way a snakes muscles work , and I can't remember what the  term for this phenomenum is called....

Speed controls was introduced  (min and max , I think) and the problem was eased .....

I'm reminded of this when driving on the M42 around Birmingham ....

There, the  gantries show different speed limits for different traffic conditions .These  are largley observed , as there are plenty of cameras working , and the traffic flow has definitely improved since their introduction....

(But what's that "Pulsing" called ?......Peristaltic? )

Edited by - Bradders on 29/01/2011 5:20:30 PM


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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 13:46
AWACS were still in use during the Iraq party.


HERB


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 16:21
Apologies Frank, you are quite right, I was confusing the early warning with anti submarine defence. Still seems daft to scrap £6billion of investment. Borrowed money has no meaning in this context, it's all borrowed of the taxpayer. The Germans were nearer having atomic weapons and missiles  than we were in the late 1930s. Eventually that was the reason why the Russians wanted to be in Berlin before us. They knew more about experiments at Spandau than we did. My point stands.

Catty, I agree. I've always thought that 'driving without due care' or 'dangerous driving' covered everything. Point is though that the level of ploicing to enforce both would be seen as excessive and too expensive.

Brad is right in saying that people's views change if their child is the victim. It takes the trauma to bring home the truth. Frank's point could only be true of someone who had suffered the loss but ignored it and drove dangerously. Come to think I'll bet there are plenty of them. Do we all cease to speed ever again if we get one fine?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 16:41


quote:
Stanley wrote:
Catty, I agree. I've always thought that 'driving without due care' or 'dangerous driving' covered everything. Point is though that the level of ploicing to enforce both would be seen as excessive and too expensive.

It would take no "policing" at all if the errant road user (on foot or wheels) were punished correctly. Everyone know that if you breath in water you drown, so you see very few inadvertant drownings.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 16:45
My attention was attracted today by the realisation the it is now staying lighter almost till the point were it goes dark. Progress is being made.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 08:18
This caught my eye this morning. Headline is good but story is better.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-12276087     Nolic


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 31/01/2011 : 05:27
Good story Comrade. I often wonder how the birds survive the weather outside at night. I know Nature is wonderful but it must be hard on them. The Robin has seen an opportunity and grabbed it. Now all we need is someone claiming it's a health hazard and going after it.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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panbiker
Senior Member


2300 Posts
Posted - 31/01/2011 : 09:08
I was thinking exactly the same thing Stanley regarding the streetwise robin. You can just see the "disgusted's of Edinburgh" getting into a right strop with this. Good on the little guy I say. Did you read the bit about the staff having to move a christmas card with a robin on the front as our little hero kept attacking it to defend his new found territory, magic! With a bit of luck he may move the missus in next year!


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 31/01/2011 : 09:44
Bodger, the traffic does appear like peristalsis when it gets to a critical density but I'm not sure what the traffic experts call it. Snakes have several types of locomotion and the one most like the traffic is undulating movement but that still has an element of side to side wave motion. Earthworms are probably a better example of peristalsis, the stretching out then contracting. There are graphics here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristalsis

Another example is a goods train slowing and accelerating, where the wagons `bunch' and then space out again such that bunching and spacing pass like a wave down the train. Imagine the wagons having longer, looser connections than usual.

The robin story is good Nolic and the title brilliant! But sadly the environmental health inspector will force the shopowner to remove the little bird (if he can!) - or perhaps it's not so sad because the pretty little bird probably carries salmonella! I like the idea of the bird singing behind the till, you don't get that in Tesco. Perhaps they could train it to stay away from the food and live at the till! (I notice it chose a Co-Op rather than the other supermarkets.)


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 31/01/2011 : 23:36
Peter ...It was me not Bodger who asked ..but it's of no matter ....

I'd forgotten the earthworm and the train wagon connections...Good stuff .

Thank you.

 


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/02/2011 : 05:56
Tiz, you spoilsport! Just think of all the diseases carried by the customers (or even the H&S person!) they are picking stuff up and putting it down again and as for the money....!!!. I doubt if one Robin adds a lot to the load.

Watching the price of oil. Up 50% since August. (Not politics Ladies, it's the pound in your pocket!)


Stanley Challenger Graham




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panbiker
Senior Member


2300 Posts
Posted - 01/02/2011 : 10:12
At the end of the day most supermarkets are just varying sizes of barn or bland industrial unit. The benefit for the wildlife is obvious really. Unlimited food, warm, dry and few predators (for the birds anyway). I remember a few years ago when I visited a Hypermarket in the Loire Valley region of France. It was huge and contained just about everything you could possibly wan't or need. One feature that I found quite fascinating was the amount of wildlife in the place. There were literaly dozens of birds flying about in the roofspace. They also used a water feature in the gardening department for taking a bath! I think most of the supermarkets will have their fair share of visitors. Asda at Colne used to have a reasonably sized sparrow colony at one time. Not as photogenic as a pretty little robin though!


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 01/02/2011 : 10:18
I agree with you about the customers Stanley, supermaket trolley handles are probably one of the biggest causes nowadays of spread of diseases such as colds, flu and norovirus. But the public heath officers focus on the little robin, it's easier than culling the customers!


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