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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:41
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Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 26/08/2011 : 06:36
Ignore them Belle and continue to use archaic words. I shall be throged today in the shed as the flitting men move an antique kist to Derbyshire for my daughter.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 28/08/2011 : 06:01
I was watching Professor Bartlett's prog on the Normans on BBC2 last night and he made some interesting points about the effect of Norman French on the language. He made the point that the Normans  rgarded the Anglo Saxons as vulgar and unrefined and this was why animals uo to their knees in mud had AS names but the meat on the table had the OF name. I wonder if this is one of the reasons why certain impoite words are regarded as 'Anglo Saxon'? I like his view of the Normans, it avoids the myths and is based on some very plausible research. Well worth seeking out.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 28/08/2011 : 11:10
Yes, I watched the first episode which was excellent but missed last night's. Our TV listing also seems confused, giving last night's as the final episode (`3/3'). Is there still another to come next week?


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 06:20
Yes, he looks at the Vikings/Normans in Sicily and their role in founding the state of Russia when they siezed Kiev. The progs are repats but still worth watching. Let's not forget North America as well....  Remember the Sagas?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tizer
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5150 Posts
Posted - 29/08/2011 : 10:09
Thanks for that. I will look forward to it, especially the bit about Sicily and links with Russia. We visited Sicily about 1980 and learnt a lot about the history. It's a fascinating place, an island affected by many different cultures over the years in the same way that Britain developed. A wide range of architectural styles. The links between the Middle East and Scandinavia are interesting too because people travelled between them on the Russian rivers. If you go to Sweden you see churches with minarets - not new ones but ancient architecture created by the influence of their Eastern visitors. Wonderful stuff!


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 30/08/2011 : 05:29
One of the points Bartlett made about England was that the roots of the problems William had with the North of England was that the predominant Norse influence here was Danish and despite the Normans being lapsed Norsemen there was no love lost between them. We call them all Vikings but there were evidently differences. The Jutes get lost a bit in all this but they were an influence as well. One thing is certain, they all left a mark on our language.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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belle
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6502 Posts
Posted - 31/08/2011 : 01:03
Something slightly different and we may have covered this before..but one of the ancestors was a "breeches maker" and I realised that although I would have no problem knowing what to do if someone told me to hitch my britches up, some of the younger generation might struggle..So origins for "Britches"..or breeches....whci ever you prefer. ???????????????


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 31/08/2011 : 04:10
Belle, Old English 'Brek' plural of 'brok', a leg covering. Old Norse 'brok'. Old High German 'bruoh'.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 00:33
Apropo of nothing much at all ......I used a phrase today that  "just came out"......

"any road up"....

It was just a fill in  , as in  "anyroad "......or "anyway"......

It started me thinking about dialect being accepted as "official" by councils , and the like.....There are plenty of Streets and Lanes in the West Riding called ROYD ......
I once saw a council roadworks triangular warning sign in Blythe  (Northumberland ) that said  " Gan Canny "......


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 05:42
I use that one as well Brad. Road=way is embedded in our heads, part of the language. 'Royd' is an interesting one. according to EPNS Placename elements it is only found as an independent word in Lancs and West Yorkshire dialect and in that context means 'clearing in a wood'. ie. Mytholmroyd. The root is Old English 'rod' or 'rodu' and may appear in old charter names as 'rode' (13th C). It still means clearing. I first came across this at Ellenroad which was named after 'Ellenrod', a neighbouring farm. Over the years it was corrupted to Ellenroad but the interesting thing is that the local dialect pronounced it as 'royd'.

Using dialect for notices can be dangerous, remember my example of 'wait while red light shows' causing the accident on a level crossing because in northern dialect this means wait until the red lights flash before crossing. It cause a death.

Funny stuff our language, I love it!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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tripps
Senior Member


1404 Posts
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 08:49
An early morning BBC news bulletin today said "foreign doctors are not prepared to come to work in England".  This was later changed to "foreign doctors have not had the right preparation in order to work in England". Quite different meanings.


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Cathy
Senior Member


4249 Posts
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 10:24
What's in a prase?  "Cannot hold a candle to" ... Apprentices were expected to hold a candle to provide light while the master craftsman worked.  Therefore someone who was unable to do that was not even fit for such a lowly position and was a much inferior person - not to be compared with the skilled expert. 


All thru the fields and meadows gay  ....  Enjoy   
Take Care...Cathy Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 16:27
Didn't know that Cathy. Brad there is a famous sign in the lakes that has found it's way on to postcards it was put  up by a farmer and reads "tek care, lambs ont road".


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/09/2011 : 05:47
David, I splutter may a time listening to Today on R4 when I hear amibiguities like that, also misused words.  AAARGH!

Belle, there used to be a sign frequently hung on a fence on the road up towards Widdup from Colne. 'Mole chap call'. It puzzled me for a while until the penny dropped.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 20/09/2011 : 23:23
I thought I'd post this link on "Dialect" as it is a song written and performed by someone I have met and played with in the past ...Dave Sudbury  is from the "West End " of Derby  , and wrote this song about a local legend ....It was later made well known by June Tabor  , but I recently became aware of this original recording , by Dave .....
I spent 30 years in Derby , without really taking too much notice of the local "twang" , but My Goodness , this  brings it right home.....

I can't listen to it without a tear  , for several reasons , but principally , the story !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y97SXJR8cVo

....worth more than one listen...it's so good !

 


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