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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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 Posted -
26/11/2011
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15:32
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As a result of the research for the other topic "Barlick and Cravens Part in the Great War" some interesting material has emerged First and foremost are the names of Men from Barlick who are not included on the Town War Memorial. Just what qualifies a name to appear on there is difficult to establish and I started out with a list of 39 possibles, this is now down to 37 as two names are indeed already on the monument. "To err is human". There are five that meet my criteria, four born and resident in Barlick and one born in Salterforth and it is possible that he lived in Barlick, he may be on the Salterforth Memorial, this I have to check. One of the five is a Young Man who died in the canal at Skipton, The Coroners verdict was suicide, but the mans state of mind could not be established, he was still a Soldier, Born, and a resident of Barlick and buried at Ghyll I believe that whatever the cause he has a right to recognition. I have had a great deal of help and support in my endeavours from Mr Chris Foster of CPGW and I feel sure he will have a valuable input to make with this new topic. I would also like to hear what the Townsfolk have to say, and with the possibility of a publication in the future I may have a word with a contact at the BET Newspaper, somebody out there may know something useful, and so to the first five names and unedited details:-
Edited by - thomo on 27/11/2011 11:28:44 AM
thomo
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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 15:34
And No 2. Updated 01. 12. 2011.
Surname: DOWD
Forename(s): William
Place of Birth: Darwen, Lancs 1898
Residence: Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Service No: 11284
Rank: Private
Regiment/Corps/Service: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Battalion/Unit: 2nd Battalion
Division: 5th Division
Age: 17 - 18
Date of Death: 1915-05-06
Awards: -----
CWGC Grave/Mem Ref: Panel 20.
CWGC Cemetery: -----
CWGC Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
Non-CWGC Burial: -----
Comments:
Craven's Part in the Great War Entry:
(Not in CPGW - found in SD)
West Yorkshire Pioneer Illustrated War Record Entry:
Data from Commonwealth War Graves Commission Records
Surname: DOWD
Forename(s): William
Nationality: United Kingdom
Service No: 11284
Rank: Private
Regiment: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Unit: 2nd Battalion
Age: 17 - 18
Awards: -----
Died Date: 1915-05-06
Additional Info: -----
Data from Soldiers Died Records
Surname: DOWD
Forename(s): William
Born: Darwen, Lancs
Residence: Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Enlisted: Skipton, Yorkshire
Number: 11284
Rank: Private
Regiment: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Decorations: -----
Died Date: 1915-05-06
Died How: Killed in action
Theatre of War: France & Flanders
Notes: -----
Update 27, 11. 2011.
Willie Dowd was born at Darwen, Lancashire . (SDGW gives his place of birth as Barnoldswick.)
Comments:
1901 Darwen, Lancashire Census: 9, Edmund Street - William Dowd, aged 2 years, born Darwen, son of Elizabeth Dowd [née Baron], married woman.
1911 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire Census: 29, Essex Street - William Dowd, aged 12 years, born Darwen, Lancashire . [William Dowd, senior, a widower, and four sons, were living with his sister-in-law, Ruth Alice Southworth, née Baron. Ruth's cousin, John Southern (201268), was also living with her.]
British Army WW1 Medal Rolls Index Cards: Private Willie Dowd, 3/11284, West Riding Regiment. Guardian - Mrs. Ruth Alice Southworth, 29 Essex Street , Barnoldswick, Colne. Lancs.
Additional info from Lancs BMD
Edited by - thomo on 01/12/2011 11:27:40 AM
thomo  |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 15:36
No 3.
Surname: PICKLES
Forename(s): Edmondson
Place of Birth: Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Residence: -----
Service No: 93697
Rank: Private
Regiment/Corps/Service: Northumberland Fusiliers
Battalion/Unit: 2nd Battalion
Division: division unknown
Age: --
Date of Death: 1920-08-07
Awards: -----
CWGC Grave/Mem Ref: XIX. H. 11.
CWGC Cemetery: BAGHDAD (NORTH GATE) WAR CEMETERY
CWGC Memorial: -----
Non-CWGC Burial: -----
Comments:
No entry in SD- post-War.
1901 Barnoldswick Census: Clough Fold - Edmondson Pickles, aged 6 months, born Barnoldswick, son of Louisa Pickles, widow.
British Army WW1 Medal Rolls Index Cards: Pte E. Pickles, 93697, Northumberland Fusiliers.
Brother of John Pickles (18902).
Craven's Part in the Great War Entry:
(Not in CPGW - CH entry 1920-08-20)
West Yorkshire Pioneer Illustrated War Record Entry:
Data from Commonwealth War Graves Commission Records
Surname: PICKLES
Forename(s): E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Service No: 93697
Rank: Private
Regiment: Northumberland Fusiliers
Unit: 2nd Battalion
Age: --
Awards: -----
Died Date: 1920-08-07
Additional Info: -----
Data from Soldiers Died Records
Surname: -----
Forename(s): -----
Born: -----
Residence: -----
Enlisted: -----
Number: -----
Rank: -----
Regiment: -----
Battalion: -----
Decorations: -----
Died Date: -----
Died How: -----
Theatre of War: -----
Notes: -----
Article Date: 20 August 1920
BARNOLDSWICK SOLDIER'S DEATH IN MESOPOTAMIA
The death occurred on August 7th, in Mesopotamia, of Private Edmondson Pickles, Northumberland Fusiliers, from heart failure. The sad news was conveyed in a letter from the War Office to his relatives in Barnoldswick last week end. Private Pickles, who would have been 20 years of age next month, was a son of the late Mr. Edmondson Pickles. He enlisted a year ago, and went out to join the Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force at Basra six weeks before Christmas. In a letter to his sister, received the Thursday before his death, he stated that he was in the best of health, having had a successful recovery from malaria, and that he was expecting being transferred to India in October. His elder brother, Private Jack Pickles, was killed in France in May, 1917
thomo |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 15:37
No 4.
Surname: PICKOVER
Forename(s): Walton
Place of Birth: Salterforth, Yorkshire
Residence: Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Service No: 3/10955
Rank: Private
Regiment/Corps/Service: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Battalion/Unit: 2nd Battalion
Division: 5th Division
Age: 39
Date of Death: 1915-04-18
Awards: -----
CWGC Grave/Mem Ref: Panel 20.
CWGC Cemetery: -----
CWGC Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
Non-CWGC Burial: -----
Comments:
On the Earby Cenotaph he is recorded as 'Walter' Pickover.
British Army WW1 Medal Rolls Index Cards: Pte Wallon Pickover, 3/10955, West Riding Regiment.
Craven's Part in the Great War Entry:
PRIVATE W. PICKOVER, Duke of Well.'s Regt., of Shuttleworth Street, Earby, killed in action April, 1916.
West Yorkshire Pioneer Illustrated War Record Entry:
PICKOVER, Walton, aged 38 years, West Riding Regiment, missing since April 18, 1915, after the Battle of Hill 60, death presumed May, 1916.
Data from Commonwealth War Graves Commission Records
Surname: PICKOVER
Forename(s): Walton
Nationality: United Kingdom
Service No: 3/10955
Rank: Private
Regiment: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Unit: 2nd Battalion
Age: 39
Awards: -----
Died Date: 1915-04-18
Additional Info: Son of Joseph Pickover, of Marke St., Barnoldswick; husband of Mary Elizabeth Pickover, of 11, Wellhouse St., Barnoldswick, Yorks.
Data from Soldiers Died Records
Surname: PICKOVER
Forename(s): Walton
Born: Salterforth, Yorkshire
Residence: Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Enlisted: Skipton, Yorkshire
Number: 3/10955
Rank: Private
Regiment: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Decorations: -----
Died Date: 1915-04-18
Died How: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: France & Flanders
Notes: -----
Article Date: 05 May 1916
BARNOLDSWICK SOLDIER'S DEATH PRESUMED
Mrs. W. Pickover, 12, Turner Street, Barnoldswick, has received a War Office note presuming the death of her husband, Pte. Walton Pickover, of the 2nd West Riding Regiment, who had been missing since April 18th, 1915, after taking part in the battle of Hill 60. Pte. Pickover, who was 38 years of age, joined the Army in August, 1914, and went out to France the January following. He worked as a cop winder at Messrs. B. and E. M. Holden's Moss Shed. He leaves a widow and two children
Article Date: 05 May 1916
PICKOVER - Private Walton Pickover, 2nd West Ridings, formerly of Barnoldswick, missing since April, 1915, death presumed May 1916
Article Date: 05 May 1916
BARNOLDSWICK SOLDIER'S DEATH PRESUMED
Mrs. W. Pickover, 12, Turner Street, Barnoldswick, has received a War office note presuming the death of her husband, Private Walton Pickover, of the 2nd West Riding Regiment, who had been missing since April 18th, 1915, after taking part in the battle of Hill 60. Private Pickover, who was 38 years of age, joined the army in August 1914 and went out to France the January following. He worked as a cop-winder at Messrs. B. and E.M. Holden's, Moss Shed. He leaves a widow and two children.
thomo |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 15:39
And finally, No 5.
Surname: WHIPP
Forename(s): Herbert Ewart
Place of Birth: Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Residence: -----
Service No: 127343
Rank: Gunner
Regiment/Corps/Service: Royal Field Artillery
Battalion/Unit: 'A' Battery 277th Brigade
Division: not applicable - Army Brigade
Age: 19
Date of Death: 1918-03-26
Awards: -----
CWGC Grave/Mem Ref: Panel 7 to 10.
CWGC Cemetery: -----
CWGC Memorial: POZIERES MEMORIAL
Non-CWGC Burial: -----
Comments:
1901 Barnoldswick Census: Herbert E. Whipp, age 2 years, born Barnoldswick, grandson of Alfred and Sarah Baxter.
Craven's Part in the Great War Entry:
GUNNER HERBERT EWART WHIPP, R.F.A., grandson of the late Mr. Wm. Baxter, Brook Street, Barnoldswick, killed in action 26th March, 1918. Aged 19 years.
West Yorkshire Pioneer Illustrated War Record Entry:
WHIPP, Gunner Ewart, R.F.A., grandson of the late Mr. Wm. Baxter, 10, Rook Street, [Barnoldswick], killed in action March 26, 1918.
Data from Commonwealth War Graves Commission Records
Surname: WHIPP
Forename(s): Herbert Ewart
Nationality: United Kingdom
Service No: 127343
Rank: Gunner
Regiment: Royal Field Artillery
Unit: 'A' Battery 277th Brigade
Age: --
Awards: -----
Died Date: 1918-03-26
Additional Info: -----
Data from Soldiers Died Records
Surname: WHIPP
Forename(s): Herbert Ewart
Born: Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Residence: -----
Enlisted: Keighley, Yorkshire
Number: 127343
Rank: Gunner
Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery & Royal Field Artillery
Battalion: -----
Decorations: -----
Died Date: 1918-03-26
Died How: Killed in action
Theatre of War: France & Flanders
Notes: -----
Article Date: 19 April 1918
Gunner H. E. Whipp, Barnoldswick
The death has been officially notified of Gunner Herbert Ewart Whipp, R.F.A., grandson of the late Mr. William Baxter, 10 Rook Street. He was killed on March 26th. Though only 19 years of age Gunner Whipp had been in France eight months. Before enlistment he worked for Messrs. Johnson, Slater and Widdup, Barnsey Shed, and was a member of the Barnoldswick Orchestral Society and the Bethesda Church Choir.
Article Date: 19 April 1918
CRAVEN AND THE WAR
Barnoldswick Casualties
Pte. Colin Ashton, Royal Warwicks, killed in action on March 24th, was the eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Ashton, 41, Harrison Street, Barnoldswick, and 21 years of age. Enlisting in February, 1916, he was wounded after 12 mouths' service in France, whither he only returned in the early part of last month. Before joining up he was employed by Mr. B. Eccleston, painter. He originally joined the 11th Hussars, but was transferred to the Warwicks on returning to the front.
The death has been officially notified of Gunner Herbert Ewart Whipp, R.F.A., grandson of the late Mr. Wm. Baxter, 10, Rook Street. He was killed on March 26th. Though only 19 years of age, Gunner Whipp had been in France eight months. Before enlistment he worked for Messrs. Johnson Slater and Widdup, Barnsey Shed, and was a member of the Barnoldswick Orchestral Society and the Bethesda Baptist Church choir.
Corpl. Alexander Greenhalgh, R.F.A., killed in action on March 21st, leaves a wife and one child living at 23, Bolland Street, Barnoldswick. He was 29 years of age, a native of Blackburn, and had spent two years in France
Article Date: 19 April 1918
WHIPP - Killed in action on March 26th, Gunner Ewart Whipp, R.F.A., grandson of the late Mr. Wm. Baxter, 10, Rook Street, Barnoldswick.
Article Date: 26 April 1918
WHIPP - In loving memory of Gunner Herbert Ewart Whipp, only son of Mr. and Mrs. Abraham Whipp, killed in action March 26th, aged 19 years.
- From his sorrowing Father, Mother and Sister. 56, York Street, Barnoldswick
thomo |
panbiker
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 16:27
I have had an initial search around the site that Chris posted in the other thread. The first stage is to establish who is actually responsible for the monument. There was no formal process in place after the First World War to establish responsibility for ongoing maintenance or ownership of a given monument.
The UK National Inventory of War Memorials does not list a responsible body for Barlicks Cenotaph.
Checking on Pendle Councils website does not confirm responsibility either although I would assume that this would be the case. It may well come under the Parks and Recreation service as this service does say it has responsibilities for the Cemeteries and a number of War Memorials although it does not list which ones.
Pendle has not yet responded to a request from the War Memorials Trust for a contact person or "War Memorial Officer".
The War Memorials(Local Authorities Powers Act of 1923 and subsequent ammendments) allows a Local Authority to add names to a monument whether it "owns" it or not.
There may be more information available online but I have'nt found it yet.
I will check with the council next week to see if I can get a definitive answer and if they are the responsible party, if they have any existing policies in place to cater for additions.
Ian |
Chris CPGW
New Member
41 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 16:32
Ian I posted this message on the other thread and it seems you're ahead of me but I shall my post here for matter of interest.
Yes a good idea Peter.
Ian, I don't think the criteria is too strict regarding guidelines on who's name should or should not go on a particular memorial . I've seen individual names (same person) appear on more than one memorial from differant districts .
From CPGW. Pte R H Richardson, born in York, but during the war was residing in Crosshills. He had for a time worked at Malham tarn . His Great Grandson contacted me about 2 or 3 yrs and asked me why he wasn't named on the Settle memorial .(I should point out that his name may have appeared on a memorial in Crosshills but unfortunately the memorial as been lost or destroyed. I I advised him to contact the council and forward on the memorial trust website to them. The council met and it was agreed that Richardsons name should go on the memorial .The trust would pay half the costs and the council the other half. I seem to remember that the cost of adding his name was something like £1500. The council at this point gulped a little but I'm pleased to say they went ahead with it.
Link
http://www.cpgw.org.uk/viewDetail.cfm?sID=330-04&view=main
Added name
http://www.cpgw.org.uk/craven_war_memorial.cfm?sID=330-04&mCode=SETTLE&pID=3&zoom=1
I would advise you to set up a small committee of like minded people and call yourselves something like the " The Friends of Barlick War Memorial Group " and when you've decided who's names should be added to the memorial, contact your local council. If you can get the attention of a sympathetic councillor it will help your cause a great deal . Send him/her the link to the War Memorials Trust site and with any luck they'll take it forward to be brought up at a council meeting for discussion . I think the only stumbling block would be the cost of the project given the present economic climate .
Regards
Chris
Edited by - Chris CPGW on 27/11/2011 12:39:54 PM
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wendyf
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 16:44
The Earby History Society was involved in a project with the Parish Council to add names to the Earby War Memorial a couple of years ago. Bob Abel did a lot of research, it might be worth contacting him to find out how it all worked.
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panbiker
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 16:48
Just moved this from the other thread as well Chris. I see Peter has replied in there as well.
Lots of interesting information on the site you posted. I would agree that cost will almost certainly be a major factor in any potential additions. I'm going to check with the council to see if if they have any existing policies that may impact on any proposal.
Ian |
Chris CPGW
New Member
41 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 16:49
Yes good idea Wendy. Bob is a nice chap and I'm sure he would be more than happy to offer his advice .
Regards
Chris
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Chris CPGW
New Member
41 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 16:56
Its good to know that there is a small group of you . I feel that you have bit more power to the elbow when facing" local bodies"
I look forward to hearing about your findings Ian.
regards
Chris
Edited by - Chris CPGW on 26/11/2011 4:56:42 PM
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panbiker
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 17:01
Wendy, can you PM me Bobs email or would you suggest contacting him through the Web Mail on Earby History Society?
Ian |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 17:27
I have just found the name of a lad who was killed, and whilst his Brothers name is on the memorial, his is not, and they both lived at the same address. In regard to the cost, I have an idea, if it were acceptable, in my capacity as an engineer, and as a fully qualified signwriter, I could design a panel with a metal frame. If the names were written in reverse on a rectangle of unbreakable glass and then sealed into a metal frame, it could be bolted to the bottom of the obelisk just above the existing WW1 names. Cost to the council would be the glass, the frame and the fitting, the rest I would gladly do for nowt, or a free spot for my ashes at Ghyll when the time comes! I imagine that this would be better as a last resort, if we get the local paper involved and get community interest, there could be another way if the powers that be cannot or will not cough up. At the end of the day, my offer still holds, I was lucky, my Dad and Grandads and Great Uncles all came home alive, Many were not so fortunate.
Edited by - thomo on 26/11/2011 6:43:03 PM
thomo |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 19:17
I have just added a pic to the first part of this.
thomo |
panbiker
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Posted - 26/11/2011 : 19:48
There is no established criteria as to what is included or indeed the style of script on any given memorial. This was left at the time to the individual communities to decide. However for existing monuments it is advised that any existing design and style is adhered to in all circumstances.
The information on the War Memorial Trust site goes on to recommend that a suitably qualified restoration / conservation practice is consulted with regard to appending additional names to existing monuments.
Not wishing to detract from your skills or ideas Peter, there are a number of specific hoops that we would have to jump through.
I think we first need to establish what the current situation is for the Barlick memorial. Who has responsibility and any existing agreed practices or policies that are in place.
Sally has been on both Pendle and Barnoldswick Town Council, she is fairly sure that Pendle have, or have adopted responsibility for the Barlick Memorial and that it may well be a good idea to get the Town Council onboard with any proposal that we may formulate in the future.
I will make enquiries from the Borough Council next week and report in this thread what I find out. I will also contact Bob at Earby and ask him for his experiences with the Earby Memorial as Wendy suggests.
Ian |
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt
2021 Posts
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Posted - 27/11/2011 : 09:14
Thanks for that Ian, how do you feel about getting the local paper involved?
thomo |
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BARLICKS PART in WW1
