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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 19/07/2011 : 05:45
Kev, it's always sad when a child dies and even worse if it turns out to be as a result of abuse. Time will tell.

I watched Panorama last night and learned some more surprising things about the affair. As soon as it was over it was announced on the news that Sean Hoare had died. He was the man interviewed by the NY Times who blew the whistle but was rubbished by NewsCorp as being addicted to drugs and alcohol and that was why he was sacked. Turns out of course that he was telling the truth. He would have been a powerful witness but I don't think his death will weaken the case. Unfortunate timing but I don't think we should jump to any conclusions, he hadn't been well for a while.

As for the rest of it. I freely admit it's moving too fast for me to have time to make any assessments. The only thing that seems certain is that there is going to be no killer blow, this is going to run and run. It will certainly be current at the next General Election.

I was trying to think of a historic parallel and the nearest I could get was the Zioviev Letter in 1924 which brought down the Labour government of Ramsay MacDonald. That was a fabrication and was used by a group of prominent Tories colluding with the Foreign office in what was described 40 years later as a 'conspiracy'. Even that doesn't fit because what we have now is no fabrication, it's real life and raises disturbing questions about the health of our public institutions.

Once again I was struck by what John Yates said, that he had done nothing wrong when it seems that he got a job for a relation of the NoW man who was working for the Met and had some sort of deal with him.

The story will drive itself and what strikes me is that there is a separate war going on which is pure political infighting. Cameron is on very dodgy ground and he is under attack. It might be better if his enemies simply kept stum and allowed events to take their course. I was struck by what John Prescott said, when asked if the two Met officers should retire he said of course because what they did was incompetent. When you think about it he could be right, if they couldn't see the dangers and the proper course they shouldn't have been in the job. Reading between the lines Boris was used as hatchet man, they were both sacked. By the way, keep your eye on what's happening in the States, the infection has spread to there and the NY Times is on the case. I think I was right about Newscorp's preferred strategy on BSkyB but they can forget that now. No way will they ever get control. James Murdoch's sinecure as chairman may well be on its last legs. Another LKF is the fact that NewsCorp have been paying the private eye Mulcare's legal costs. How long does that go on and what happens when they cut him adrift. He knows more about where the bodies are buried than anyone else. Keep an eye on him.

The Panorama programme stole my best line last night. "You couldn't make it up!"


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 19/07/2011 : 08:13
I can't imagine the diificulty the Court of Protection faces today in the case of the poor young woman in a coma but showing signs of brain activity. Her family are comvinced she is in pain. We have many decisions to face every day but none in my case as difficult as this. Thank God it isn't me.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 19/07/2011 : 08:38
It's funny what you trip over in the long grass of research. I found this quotation this morning while I was looking for something else and it struck me that it is as applicable today as it was when he said it:

" Remember the rights of the savage, as we call him. Remember that the happiness of his humble home, remember that the sanctity of life in the hill villages of Afghanistan, among the winter snows, is as inviolable in the eye of Almighty God, as can be". - William Ewart Gladstone


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 19/07/2011 : 09:43
quote:
Stanley wrote:
That was a fabrication and was used by a group of prominent Tories colluding with the Foreign office in what was described 40 years later as a 'conspiracy'.
Talking of conspiracies, I was reading an item by Oliver Kamm in The Times and he expressed his pleasure that this newspaper had not fallen into the trap of referring to the News of the World issue as `Hackgate'. He then explained something that was new to me. We all know of US President Nixon and the Watergate affair. Kamm writes that Nixon's former speechwriter (man called Saffire) wanted to diminish the effect of the name `Watergate' so, in his regular articles in the New York Times, he created lots of `-gate' names for all sorts of stories, many of them silly stories, e.g. he called a financial accounting scandal something like `Over Billingsgate'.  So every time our newspaper journalists resort to making up another `-gate' name they dilute the Watergate effect slightly.

On the point about the NoW infection spreading to the US, lets' not forget that Rupert Murdoch is a US citizen so it's interesting to know that he's now being investigated by the FBI as well as our own authorities. He might face a tougher time in the US than in the UK (remember Enron etc).

Edited by - Tizer on 19/07/2011 09:46:55


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 19/07/2011 : 09:52
True Tiz. I used to read Saffire regularly because despite being a rabid reactionary he wrote good comment pieces and I think I remember the -gate article.

I'm getting slightly depressed. The present kerfuffle is like watching a structure failing in a storm. I can't help wondering if this is a symptom of deep problems in society, if so, where will it end? Must go for a walk!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 19/07/2011 : 21:00
Hope you enjoyed the walk! Here is a bit of better news for you...we might get one of our Cornish tin/copper mines back in action (and there have been reports of metals such as indium at commercially viable levels too).

See this page

Edited by - Tizer on 19/07/2011 21:03:14


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Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 19/07/2011 : 21:45
Parents released after toddler death in Barnoldswick

Police investigating the death of a two-year-old boy in Lancashire have said there are no suspicious circumstances surrounding his death.The child died on Sunday at a house in Barnoldswick, and his parents were subsequently arrested on suspicion of murder and child cruelty.

A post-mortem revealed the boy had died of asphyxiation. Police have concluded the death was a "tragic accident".

His parents, both 24, have been released without charge.

Again, it would appear, we should not believe all we read in the papers... 

Edited by - Big Kev on 19/07/2011 21:46:17


Big Kev

It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 06:10
Tiz, good news but of course tied to metal prices, the bane of the Cornish Iindustry. Funnily enough I'm reading William Pole's classic 'Treatise on the Cornish Pumping engine at the moment. The walk worked, it cleared my head.

Good news about the parents, that must have been a terrible experience. Now what they have to do is grieve for a lost child. My heart goes out to them, nobody should ever have to bury their child.

I wonder if our poiliticians are keeping their eye on what the IMF is saying about the Euro? Angela Merkel says that there will be no magic bullet coming out of talks this week on the Greece crisis. IMF is obviously looking for one.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 07:35
I watched Ms Brooks at the Commons media committee last evening for about half an hour.

I can see why she rose to the head of NI. From what I saw she is a real cool customer, unflabable, intelligent and to the point. If she was lying then she is very good at it. Nolic


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wendyf
Senior Member


1439 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 07:59
And such wonderful hair!!


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 09:22
"And such wonderful hair!!" - Wendy  .......which is what prompted the caption of the main cartoon about Murdoch in The Times on Saturday: "To lose one red top is bad but to lose two is ridiculous" (or words to that effect).

"Again, it would appear, we should not believe all we read in the papers." - Kev on the toddler death   .......and it's another example of the police over-reacting, grabbing the nearest innocent person and putting them through hell (remember the landlord of the murdered lass in Bristol, and the man in London who was wrongly accused of murdering his girlfriend and who later committed suicide, etc etc?)

It was great to hear Lady James (author Phylis `P.D.'  James) on the Today programme again this morning. She has a gift for summing up the issues, like pointing out that the bankers and politicians have shown no contrition for their bad ways.


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 10:01
''It is a sad fact that many children are born as a consequence of pleasure seeking rather than a strong desire for a family''.

What's wrong with pleasure seeking?  I've engaged in recreational sex for most of my adult life and mighty enjoyable it is too.  I've never had a strong desire for a family, and don't have one.  Now, one could invest heavily in the sort of sensible sex education they offer as routine in most of mainland Europe and ensure that everyone has the wherewithall to engage in as much pleasure seeking as they like whilst cogniscent of its consequences and the importance of respect, buy hey good luck getting that past the tabloids.  A lot of children are born of chronic ignorance.

 
It reminds me of Monty Python's 'Meaning of Life' where the 'catholic' family of 50-odd kids, the latest dropping out on the kitchen floor whilst the mother washed up, is seen as disgraceful by the 'protestant' with the father bemoaning that 'they have a kid everytime they have sex'.  The mother looks at the one child they have and notes, 'but so do we'. 

 
Richard Broughton



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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 13:55
Richard, I have to admit I've been guilty of pleasure-seeking as well....

I don't come on the site in the middle of the day very often but two things grabbed me this morning. Private Eye popped through my letterbox, always interesting, often depressing but on the whole a good reality chack on what the rest of the media and politics is doing. Today is no exception, full of intriguing facts. (I wonder if anyone will sue them?) One in particular caught my eye. Remember Gordon Brown accusing the Sun of illegally getting hold of the medical records and the way he was comprehensively shot down? See page six  'Lies Damned Lies and Wapping Fibs'. They print a very convincing explanation of how this backfired because the Guardian reporter said specifically that 'details from his medical records' had been accessed and this was not the case, the Eye gives a very convincing account of how the information was obtained from a health professional at the hospital in Fife with whome 'the Sun had a close realtionship' accompanied by supporting evidence. So perhaps we were all a bit too quick in believing what looked like a comprehensive rebuttal of Godron's accusation.

The other matter is closer to home. I know a man who has had a hen pen up Esp Lane for many years. Esp Lane has been in the news a lot lately because of people protesting against plans to build a house there. There are signs in many gardens 'Save Our Wildlife!'  However, my mate Jack has received notice from the Environment Department at the Council that he must get rid of his cockerels or stop them crowing. He believes the complaint was made by someone who has just moved into the area. Why do people move into the country if they don't like it?  This is selfish and ignorant. They talk about protecting the conservation area on the grounds of the environment and the heritage. I have news for them, people have been keeping hens on Esp Lane for over 2,000 years!  How about accepting the countryside as it is and not killing the animals that make it what it is?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 14:00
If it is the cockeral that I have heard then it sounds half strangled alreadyInnocent


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 20/07/2011 : 14:43
On Mr Brown, his son's illness, and who learned of this how and when etc, there is one thing missing.

 
Just what thought process does Ms Brookes go through to decide that it is in her gift to inform the public of the details of a child's illness, at a time of her choosing and in a medium of her choice, and inform the parents of this via a 'phone call?  That doesn't strike me as the behaviour of a properly-functioning person, if I'm being polite.  Normal folk tend to defer to the parents to inform or not, of things like this.

 
I would have liked her to explain this yesterday, the thought process, how her brain works etc

 
I would try and make sure the request to get rid of the cockerel, or otherwise stop it crowing, is publicised as widely as possible through the BET and CH&P.  Sort of thing 5 Live Drive like too, especially if you can get the thing to cock-a-doodle on demand.  You just have to shame and humiliate folk that do these silly things, it's the only approach they understand. 

 
Richard Broughton  



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