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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 17:26
How much differeence is there between Hamas, Humus amd Hummus?

Answers on the back of a five pound note to the usual address, please.

 

I seem to remember Amo, Amas, Amant, Amamus, Amatis, Amant (....or something like that) from a very long time ago.

Edited by - catgate on 12/02/2011 5:33:01 PM


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 18:05
Well boys and gorillas, I have the feeling it might be That Time again....

You know the one where Old Bradders does a bit of fundamental research  , voices an opinion (unheard of by some who don't look back) and gets shot at !)........

Fatah is what became of the PLO........Hammas are a very similar group......

In 2006 , elections were held in Gaza and Hammas won.....Fatah would not relinquish power , so Hammas took it by force (that's  only 4 and a bit years ago , Frank )...

At which point ,Gaza was Blockaded......Now you may ask yourself why , and it is my guess that the Yanks thought they had a good conduit through Fatah, to keep a lid on things , because of their relationship with that nice Mr Arrafat (deceased) ....and had not branded Fatah  "a Terrorist Organisation " , whereas Hammas were being portrayed as the real Bad Guys ! ( U Turn required by U.S.)

The key is in the title of the founding organisation "Liberation"...anyone who uses any methods they can (including disgusting civilian bombing tehniques) is a "terrorist"......(they also used to be called geurrillas)....

One can point the fingure at Mow-Mow , IRA, Hezbollah,and the Isrealies , themselves in the lead up to the founding of modern Isreal (not to mention Mossad).......The list goes on...

 What they have all fought for was the right to live in their own homeland .......

The treatment of the Palestinians ,for the last several decades, is an Utter Disgrace , (remember Shatilla ?) ......and a Peaceful ,negotiated, solution is the only option  !

(I might not have got all of that correct , but you can see where I'm coming from ...Eh)

 

Edited by - Bradders on 12/02/2011 8:37:30 PM


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 20:53
remember Shatilla
I do been there seen that and I know who was responsible



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 20:57
that's  only 4 and a bit years ago , Frank

Yes and your point is ???

Have elections been called Yes or No ??

and I know the answer to that without looking it up.

" I might not have got all of that correct , but you can see where I'm coming from ...Eh"

Yeah and on a family site I am afraid I can't reply!!!!



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 21:01
Stanley
" Obama isn't responsible for what the government does "
Well I wonder why they make such a fuss over the Presidential Election !!!!! lets wait and see who the American People hold responsible

Edited by - frankwilk on 12/02/2011 10:15:15 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 21:16
Frank ...Given what the Palestinians in Gaza have been through in the last 4 1/2 years , I think it is hardly surprising that there haven't been election ....and Yes ,if it were proved that Hammas were illegally hanging onto power in the long term  , I would be critical...(but, I expect you know the constitution of the Gaza Strip backwords ....I will bow to you superior knowledge , if they should have been called earlier )

So put it politely , then Frank .......Where am I coming from ?

I'm saying the Palestinians have had a very raw deal.....Let's debate the point ....I will take some convincing of a different point of view , but am happy to listen.

 

 

 


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 22:21
I will bow to you superior knowledge
Thank goodness for that because you don't know what it is all about.
Who held Terry Waite Hostage ?? Israel ?? Who provoked Israel into invading Lebannon ?? 
Bradders I lived in Lebannon for 2 years, it gives you a better understanding of what goes on when you live in a Country.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 00:57
I have to say i haven't read a lot into the situation going on re gaza and israel, but I do know this we do not get balanced reporting that shows two sides. When the last big distrubance was on, like everyone else I sat and watched  the plight of the people of gaza, it was reported on the news every night, i looked at the tiny strip of land and thought these poor people are caught between the sea and their enemies. I saw them carrying their wounded children in the streets and telling us the Israelies thought nothing of bombing schools....then I met people who lived in Israel, I heard first hand how all the children and the teenagers are on tranquilisers because they are shelled continuously day and night, and suffer from shell shock, i heard that the palestinians thought nothing of launching attacks from schools so that when the Israelies retaliated they unkowningly hit children...I don't know who is telling the truth, maybe both, maybe neither.... I think it is short sighted and arrogant of us westeners to feel we have any kind of handle on this at all, and untill the day comes when myself and all my relatives in living  history are without a country of our own, a homeland, or untill I am squeezed onto a tiny strip of land between my enemies and the sea, I cannot possible take a side on this issue.


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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 01:58
It is difficult to KNOW who is to blame, Stanley is it history?, Israel refuses to obey UN directives, continues to build on Palestian territory, (hard to accept "this is going to be your land, but we will build on it), the Arabs continue to vow to wipe out Israel.  Israel were the biggest supplier of small arms to South Africa during apartheid, their economy gets a big boost from world wide sales of Israel war bonds and of course US money, they seem to like playing the role of bogey man in the ME, Israel is not guilt free.  BUT it must be hard to exist in the middle of radicals vowing to destroy you, so the Arabs are not guilt free.

A peaceful negotiated settlement is the only answer. well of course it is, it always is!


HERB


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 04:57
You're right Herb, he has a veto but like all vetoes it is a dangerous weapon and very rarely used.In effect, whoever controls the House of Representatives has control of policy. That's why since the mid teram elections Obama has had to trade with the Republican contolled House to get his policies on the statute book. Just one of the checks and balances built into the US Constitution to prevent the President acting as a dictator. Always seen as a possible danger because he has ultimate power over the armed forces as Commander in Chief and neither House or Senate can control that power.

Whatever your opinion of Hamas, and remember most of the information against them originates in Israel and their hands aren't clean, they are still the democratically elected government.

Herb you're right, it is hard and has been ever since organised immigration was allowed by Britain who controlled Palestine under mandate. The modern state of Israel was founded in 1948 but in case anyone has forgotten full control was gained by 'terrorist tactics' or 'freedom fighters and patriots' depending on your point of view. The position of the Palestinians now is exactly what Israel faced and so of course the Israelis call their patriots terrorists. Nobody, including us, is guilt-free.

Frank, you should be careful about quoting Terry Waite as an example of  anything. There was much speculation at the time that he wasn't only engeged in humanitarian activities. This was firmly denied in UK but there are still people who are sceptical and point to links with American activity at the time. Nothing ever proved but enough to raise doubts which have never been resolved. Here's part of an article from the US journal 'The Economist' in 1991:
"HE WAS the ideal intelligence asset: committed, brave, gregarious, trustworthy, able to take people into his confidence, and with an appearance of utter integrity. There can be little doubt that agencies of Ronald Reagan's administration, notably the CIA and the National Security Council (NSC), made use of Terry Waite in their efforts to free the western hostages held in Beirut. They would have been fools not to. The questions that remain, now that Mr Waite is free, are how far he knew that he was being used, how far he was happy to go along with it, and how much he knew about the other fish the Americans were frying.

Clearly Mr Waite was kidnapped, and held captive for five years, because the men in Islamic Jihad thought he was an American agent. Little was needed to give them that impression; Mr Waite's well-publicised use of an American military helicopter to get from Beirut to Cyprus …"
 


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 10:01
I saw the film of the incident at Newbury where the two horses died. I remember an occasion at Thornton Hall Farm in the 1960s when Ernie Dawson and his lads couldn't get the beasts to go in the shippon one morning. They eventually found that the cause was a fault in the uderground electricity cable to the farm buildings under the passage leading to the shippon doorway. Luckily it wasn't serious enough to kill any of the beasts but they could certainly feel it.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 11:28
They seem to be saying that recent `works' might have affected an old cable and made it dangerous. It can't have been far below the ground surface!


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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 11:57
in Toronto a number of dogs have been electrocuted and a few people zapped when walking over hydro vault covers on the street, all caused by leakage, they have all been checked and are now safe???


HERB


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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 12:15
The UFC craze that seems to be feeding the public's urge for violence was prohibited in Ontario until this year.  The first fight card is scheduled for April 30, tickets went on sale this past week.  Floor level tickets $300-$500, upper levels $150-$300, the pre-sale was 45,000 seats the next day the balance of 15,000 seats sold out. .......recession?????


HERB


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2011 : 12:20
"Israel".  In 830 BC the land south of what we now call Lebanon, between the sea and up to the river Jordan, and including land on the east bank of the river for the greater part, and as far south as Jericho was the Kingdom of Israel. The land to the south of which was the Kingdom of Judah, separated from the sea by the Phillistine City States, now the Gaza Strip. This puts the people of Israel as being in that area for at least 2841 years during which they have dealt with many incursions from territories on all sides. Maybe they do have some rights after all!


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