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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  28/04/2011  :  07:37
Political comment is a high risk activity on the site these days so I thought I'd try again to give those who are interested in politics a safe haven!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 15:04


quote:
Bruff wrote:

 
I of course am perfectly balanced having a chip on both shoulders........

 
Very much a Gurniad observation. Nice. Nolic


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 15:24
When The Guardian went from broadsheet to Berliner format, there was extensive comment in the letter pages from readers bemoaning the fact they would now struggle to use it to draw their fires.  My own contribution was to wonder why these 'jessies' were bothering to light their fires in September, with the advice to pull on a jumper or crawl back under their duvets.  To which the response from a 'jessie' half way up a mountain in Wales was......

Fully paid up member of The Guardian-reading class me and proud of it - public sector dosser, foodie, arts-obsessed, Francophile, painfully politically correct, real-ale lover, drug libertarian, republican etc etc

 
Richard Broughton



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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 16:06
Tardis  said:," if you do not believe in the political situation then with holding your vote in the current system means that you are condoning it, as non-votes are not counted in any other way.

Plus, if you don't vote, then effectively you are giving up the right to actually comment in many people's thoughts because they do not have to consider your opinion."

Thanks for this Tardis it highlights all the reasons why I decline to believe in politics..I don't know if you've noticed but during your lifetime successive govts have come and gone with opposing ideas and all sorts of laws, measures, and policies have been passed..whether you condoned it or not..yet despite this life has gone on in a very similar way..

Yes I do think that those that indulge themselves in party politics feel that no one else opinion needs to be listened to ..it has been my experience throughout life, that unless you are agreeing with the person you are debating with or your views hold some leverage or financial benefit to be used for their own ends...most people dismiss other peoples points of view without consideration. I am not saying I have never voted..but just that voting is not very effective in get anyone in "power" that I would wish to support with the same conviction that you have. If you look at all the times in history when the peoples voice has been listened to it has very little to do with voting.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 23:37
Probably  a naive question at this point is such an erudite debate, .....

but .......

does anyone know exactly how much HMG spends on Foreign Aid and Military "activities" overseas ?
Funny that we can afford  bomb Gadaffi and fight the Taliban , but at the same time, they're threatening to stop my bus pass ! 


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 04:42
The Fox affair sloiwly becomes clearer. The lid was lifted a little more yesterday when 'A wealthy Supporter' of Dr Fox surfaced and said that he and a group of friends supported Dr Fox in his Ant-EU, Pro American and pro-Israeli stance and financed Werrity as his advisor. So an ultra-right wing MP is subsidised and influenced with secret finance by people wanting to forward their interests, the ultimate lobbying operation. No political supervision, no positive vetting and undoubted covert influence of a man elected to serve his constituents and the country. Cameron is now aware of this and continues to support Fox so this suggests that this situation is seen as normal and acceptable. Really?

Mutterings about a press 'smear campaign'. If it hadn't been for a free press would we have known anything about this? Did Cameron know that Coulson was being subsidised by Newscorp?  Could this be why he evidently sees any attack on Fox as being a Bad Thing? The whole thing stinks and it's time the stables were cleared a la Expenses Scandal. Lobbying power, covert subscriptions and biased advisers and consutants to political parties should be the next target.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 10:43
DfiD:

http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/Public-data/

In June the Libyan campaign was said to be about £260 million according to the BBC, I am sure firmer figures would be available if someone asked.


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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 10:48
In a democracy you don't have to vote. Since most people have been able to be involved since 1928 (over 21) it is still relatively young.

You would be surprised how many folk think that their opinion does not count, but if you engage with the elected representatives then they may adapt their policies.

Obviously if you believe in the electoral system, and I think it is in much need of reform far beyond the current boundary changes, then you must also believe in a majority decision.


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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 11:00
Not really sure what you are suggesting about Dr Fox Stanley. The man is not costing the tax payer a bean yet is apparently helping him to keep an even mind against the frustration of the Civil Service in the MoD that is obviously not fit for purpose. All decisions made would have to go through Cabinet and the MoD for Collective government. Lobbying has occured widely throughout the UK parliamentary history.

What it really smacks of, is a Sir Humphrey moment because the chief mandarin of the MoD is being ambushed by actual facts rather than what his department wants Dr Fox to see.

How can the MoD have been allowed to enter a contract for an aircraft carrier that costs more to cancel than to build, but can't afford boots, transport, helicopters and armour for the boys in the front line? Or has to beg for munitions from the US because our RAF boys don't carry enough for more than a minor engagement and the industry replacement lead times are so long?


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 12:35
Perhaps the MoD should be opened up to greater competition, with 80% of the budget devolved down to the squaddies etc.  I understand they are best placed to decide on commissioning etc, being on the front line an' all.  Too many Majors this and Colonels that in the MoD, they arguably need more 'generalists' (if one pardons the pun).....

 
To be honest the stories on Dr Fox are largely tittle-tattle, his priapism or not being of little interest to me and quite his own business.  I don't have a problem with advisors either.

 
But once again we have an advisor of sorts, who appears to have the ear of the Secretary of State, and who appears to have been with him at meetings on defense matters with foreign government etc, yet is not DVed.  As Andy Coulson was not DVed.  This seems an administration that runs fast and loose with such matters. 

 
Once of a day 'defense of the realm' was an important consideration.  No more it seems.  A strange shift.  Quite puzzling to me at least why this is not the focus. 

 
Richard Broughton



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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 14:31
But once again we have an advisor of sorts, who appears to have the ear of the Secretary of State, and who appears to have been with him at meetings on defense matters with foreign government etc, yet is not DVed.  As Andy Coulson was not DVed.  This seems an administration that runs fast and loose with such matters. 

There is currently no evidence, except innuendo, to suggest anything of the kind

Edited by - Tardis on 13/10/2011 14:37:32


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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 14:35
Fully paid up member of The Guardian-reading class me and proud of it - public sector dosser, foodie, arts-obsessed, Francophile, painfully politically correct, real-ale lover, drug libertarian, republican etc etc

I have issues with a newspaper that tries to lecture me on tax when itself is domiciled for tax reasons offshore, a newspaper that lectures me on the evil of capitalism when it is owned by a set of venture capitalists, a newspaper that allows someone like Polly Toynbee to write for it about the evils of huge salaries but is unwilling to divulge why hers allows her to run a very nice home here, and another one in Tuscany.

Edited by - Tardis on 13/10/2011 14:36:57


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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 14:36
Britain's trade-in-goods deficit narrowed in August, delivering George Osborne some respite as exports hit a record high and imports fell
it is only one


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 13/10/2011 : 15:16
I do apologise, I thought it was a matter of record, rather than innuendo, that both Mr Coulson and Mr Werritty lacked developed vetting (actually, any vetting at all for Mr Werritty).  Indeed, with respect to Mr Coulson his lack of DV was confirmed by Downing Street, though of course I was relying on for example Channel 4 news for reporting this confirmation via the quoting of a No 10 spokesperson.  And well, mistakes do happen.

 
Richard Broughton



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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 14/10/2011 : 06:29
It's even more a matter of record this morning as we now know who the backers were and that they paid Werrity £147,000. Perhaps they were just being altruistic? The point about positive vetting is the most important one and is the reason why Cameron will want to bury this one. How many 'advisors and consutants' at the heart of government are not checked out properly?

Curious affair of Oliver Letwin dumping his waste paper in bins in the park five days on the trot. 

Credit ratings being mown down like a meadow in haytime. Are the rating agencies trying to signal something? EU ministers must be worried men.....

Not looking good, tin hats on Lads! I sense incoming mail.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 14/10/2011 : 08:50
There may be no evidence and perhaps it's yet more innuendo, but Mr Letwin's office do not appear to be denying his disposal of various material in the waste bins of a park.  Simply that there was nothing sensitive.  Forgive me, but given that his office have noted some of the 'waste' was constituency correspondence I would have thought by default this was sensitive.  I do not write to my MP in the expectation that any issue is deemed suitable for disposal in a public bin (though of course the wste may not be letters from constituents).  Indeed, I would argue that it is inappropriate at best for a public official to dispose of any material from a third-party in a public bin.

 
In fact, Mr Letwin's own Department's refresher training course on the handling of information, which all civil servants have just had to complete as an online exercise, notes just that.

 
Richard Broughton  



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