Manxman is in a bit of a state, up in Sunderland. Plenty of pics on the website, some good, some very sad.

Inver, what's happening with the Liverpool display option?

Strangely ironic that Liverpool doesn't already have a ship to display as a proud reminder of her past.

Hi Merc. and welcome to O.G.F.B.

I honestly dont know what the plans are for Manxman. The impression I get is that the preservation funding system cost' absorb more money than actually goes into the preservation of the ship.

I only got involved because being an ex-merch chief I wanted to make her seaworthy again. Unfortunately most of the members on the committee are not ex-seafarers nor have they any idea of what is required both from a marine engineering perspective, and of running a preservation society from a business perspective. I suppose that being a patron of the society looks good on your resume. Like most other preservation projects preserving the Manxman requires a bottomless pit of money.

The problem at the Liverpool end is that the Albert Dock want the ship, but they want it to be donated to the Liverpool Maritime Museum. My understanding is that the preservation society has invested so much money into her already that they dont want to lose control of her preservation or ownership. The M.D.&H.B. (Mersey Docks and Harbour Board) are quite willing to let her be moored at the Liverpool docks. The snag there is that they will charge full berthing fees, so that makes that proposal a non-starter.

The Manxman Steamship Companies intentions are to make her seaworthy. Unfortunately they dont have enough income (from donations etc) to complete the required work. My understanding is that the ship is deteriorating faster than they can maintain her. Another problem they have is that they do not respect the knowledge that volunteers bring with them. There are ex-marine engineers and deck officers that worked on the ship in their spare time in the early days. However the view taken by the preservation committee members was one that the volunteers where nothing more than oil-rags, and could be used for any purpose they considered fit. This thinking has cost them dearly.

Like you say it's sad, just so sad.  

Thanks, Inver!

I really don't know how the society will raise the necessary cash! It's going to be an expensive job!

MD&HB are just being plain greedy and short sighted.

Maritime Museum? Would she just become a static exhibit again - i went aboard at Preston and it was as if time had stood still, looking at the logs of weather conditions on various crossings was quite emotional. I only sailed on her once and the weather was foul, but remember the experience well.

But to get her running under her own power must be such a tantalising prospect.

ps Are you involved with The Waverley at all?

That's interesting. Waverley now re-boilered I noticed!

Went aboard Maid of the Loch last year, project seemed to be going quite well at the time. Don't know where they're up to now though.

I'm old enough to remember sailing out of Liverpool  aboard the St Tudno en route to Llandudno!!

How many qualified marine engineers are around today who can handle steam engine/boiler work and operation?

My old boss had a 1st Class ticket, diesel with steam endorsement. Any 1st Class Steam and Diesel around?

PLAN over 33000 and all that !!!!

Inver, so what we're seeing is a lack of steam plant on which to train engineers. A sign of the times I suppose.

Talking of rock dodging, didn't Waverley hit something fairly recently, or did I imagine that? I 'm sure I read somewhere that she suddenly had to shut off steam, resulting in a tumultuous blowing-off of the safety valves!

Hi, Neville. There are still plenty of steam engineers that are shore based. C.E.G.B. guys etc. The marine shipping industry has gradually  moved away from steam engined vessels during the latter part of the twentieth century. The Queen Mary II is diesel electric, Cunard were well known for being a steamship company. It's just a matter of finances. Motorships are cheaper to run and maintain. A steam engineer who has served his/her time shore based has to get sea time in to get a class 3 or 4 ticket. I think thats at least six moths sea time before you can apply for a certificate of competency. Where the snag is, is that shipping companies cannot carry uncertificated engineers. So what a few of them do is employ people in an engine room rating capacity till they have got enough sea time in. The problem is that very few companies are willing to pay what is in effect a passenger till they have enough sea time to get a ticket. The M.C.A. (Maritime and Coastguard Agency) are extremely tight on this issue. There have been far too many accidents at sea. The M.C.A. engineering superintendants make impromptu visits on most of the passenger carrying vessels around the British Isles.

Regarding The P.S. Waverley. Here is the news report you are talking about. You will notice she has had a few narrow escapes, the most recent one in  was August of 2006.

The Waverley is among the last sea-going steam ships in the world.
She has hit the headlines again after running aground on Monday at Girvan Harbour during a routine summer excursion with 740 people on board.

Clyde-built and launched in 1947, she replaced the previous Waverley which was sunk at Dunkirk in 1940.

In 1974, she was bought by enthusiasts from the Paddle Steamer Preservation Society for just £1 from owners Caledonian MacBrayne.

And almost 30 years later, she was renovated at a cost of £7m and has since been a popular tourist attraction around the UK coast.

In the spring and autumn, she goes as far as the Bristol Channel, the Solent and the Thames.

In summer, she still cruises the Clyde, as she did in the heyday of the traditional Glasgow Fair fortnight.

While delighting the crowds, the paddle steamer has occasionally hit stormy waters.

'Extremely fortunate'

Two years ago, Waverley staff were criticised in an official report after the vessel hit rocks off the Mull of Kintyre.

A Maritime and Coastguard Agency report criticised crew members' navigational skills and described equipment on board as inadequate.

No-one was injured but the report said it was "extremely fortunate" that none of the 370 people on board were hurt.

In July 2002, more than 700 people were left temporarily stranded when the paddle steamer broke down in the Clyde.

They were returned to dry land after problems with one of the paddle steamer's wheels.

In 1999, more than 400 passengers and crew were stranded when the pleasure boat lost power in the Bristol Channel.

The vessel was examined by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency following the latest incident and resumed service on Tuesday.

I also believe that the P.S.P.S (Paddle Steamer Presevation Society) has now aquired the P.S. Kingswear Castle. The Kingswear Castle is not sea-going. I believe she plies the Rivers Thames and Medway.