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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  28/04/2011  :  07:37
Political comment is a high risk activity on the site these days so I thought I'd try again to give those who are interested in politics a safe haven!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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handlamp
Senior Member


1100 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 15:23
Just another thought on the EU problem. Of all the EU members the UK seems to be the only nation that rigorously abide by the rules and regulations while the others are inclined to pick and choose what they actually do. I'm sure that Germany will not put up with that where any financial agreements are concerned. Probably Master Sarkosy and his countrymen will be one of the first to offend. Let's wait and see and enjoy the fun but, whatever happens it wain't do the financial crisis, which we can't escape from, much good. 
Phil, my comments above would of course apply to any regulations made by the EU.   


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 16:58
Spot on, Ted. The Sunshine States of the Club Med region have done as they liked, ignored all rules that didn't suit and, in at least some cases, shot through with corruption to boot. It amazed me when the EU seemed willing to bring in states like Turkey. The Eurozone was a bag of nails from the start and now it's going to be the Neurozone.


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 18:10


quote:
Tizer wrote:
Spot on, Ted. The Sunshine States of the Club Med region have done as they liked, ignored all rules that didn't suit and, in at least some cases, shot through with corruption to boot. It amazed me when the EU seemed willing to bring in states like Turkey. The Eurozone was a bag of nails from the start and now it's going to be the Neurozone.

I think you are being most unfair picking out the Club Med countries in relation to corruption. The wholed damned lot are in the corruption pot up to their eyeballs. Not just the EU but every government and government agency in the world. Not just governments but "The Establishment" worldwide.  The fact that we have "lobbyist" is proof of this corruption. The governments of the world do not consult those who elected them, they "consult/listen to" those who can feed their wallets and egos and keep them in power. How easily do they discard election manifesto promises without any sign of shame or remorse. 

The Middle East  has begun to recognise this and has stated to do something about it. Sadly I think this recognition has been subverted to some extent, but it is still there. How long before it extends into Europe and beyond. Russia is starting to wake up too.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 04:43
Agreed Catty, corrupt influence has become the norm and is skewing all decisions. Ted, I agree, think of the regulations on animal welfare, we improved pig-keeping and stood the expense while others continued the old practices. Battery hens is another, I see a new test has been installed which can check if eggs were laid on wire mesh, it leaves a lattice pattern on the soft shell. (Eggs are soft when laid) Look at the hidden subsidies given to manufacturers breking not only EU rules but WTO as well. Shipbuilding was a glaring case.

Listened to  reports of hysterical reaction from Nick Clegg and others talking as though we were about to float away into the Atlantic. Total twaddle!  Ted will remember another time when we stood aside from Europe and stood alone. Let's see, round about 1939?

Watched Robert Peston's programme on money last night. Even the bankers admitted culpability! However, Howver the programme was skewed towards the thesis that innovation and exports are the key to revival. Not a word about taking imaginative measures to get more people in work and stimulat internal consumption by raising real incomes derived from work. We have concentrated on cost of manufacture and 'efficiency' for 50 years aided by computers and have ignored the cost in jobs. More labour intensive industries may not help price of manufacture but if a proper cost/benefit analysis is made are more efficient overall for the economy. Innovation and technology are important but so is employment in lower skilled jobs. One example I often quote, at one time we had street sweepers and lengthmen on the roads.  Not necessarily the sharpest knives in the box but usefully employed, paying taxes and retaining dignity. This is just as important as simplistic 'efficiency' and wage cutting. Remember the advent of 'time and motion studies'? McKinsey has much to answer for, workers were not seen as human beings but 'manufacturing units', middle management, foremen and apprentice system decimated and we can see the consequences now. It doesn't matter if manufacturing cost rises, it's activity and employment that are needed!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 06:40
I was just rhinking.... Cameron's statement in the house this morning is not going to be an edifying spectacle. I predict a severe outbreak of ya-boo politicing with far more heat than light. Why do they have to behave like this?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 10:28
The FT's slant on the report into the failure of RBS and the regulation points an unwavering finger at Brown and Balls. I wonder if the beeboids will pick that out? Peston probably won't but Stephanie might if she's given the chance.

RBS loss currently £52 billion to the taxpayer, so if this deficit is all the fault of the bankers why is it costing the country more than twice that every year?


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 10:51


quote:
Stanley wrote:
........... Why do they have to behave like this?

Because they are politicians, who naturally have the immature "playground" mentality and who  will sulk, or lay on their backs and scream and kick their legs in the air,  if they do not get a lollipop.

I know where I would put the lollipop, too.

Edited by - catgate on 12/12/2011 6:37:18 PM


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 16:32
I watched the Prime Minister's statement To the House today , and waited just long enough to hear Dennis Skinner quote Dell Boy ,and call him a Plonker. !...Hope it'll be on YouTube..... Dennis had earlier made a stinging point about the  PM castigating Trade Union officals  for walking out of meeting....EXCELLENT stuff ....

PS Tuesday...just had to add this , as somebody put it on my Facebook page , (and I have Shared in on my "Home Page " too....
Great shame the Beeb did not show it in full an National TV News ....In the early evening versions they cut out the whole of his first sentence..."Is this the same Prime Minister who ....",.....etc (wonder why ?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzH4P2pLLic&feature=youtu.be

Edited by - Bradders on 13/12/2011 10:45:27 PM


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 05:02
I heard it on World Service this morning Brad. As you say, excellent. (And they say he is losing his marbles.....)

I note that Mr Clegg didn't show his face yesterday. There would appear to be a rift in the lute. More twaddle talked in Parliament yesterday. Some intersting stuff on Peston's programme last night including strong opinions that the Euro was inevitably going to fail because of unaffordable defaults. It was pointed out that they are still concentrating on the defaults and cuts when the real problem is lack of economic activity. The view apropos UK is that we are in recession already.

It struck me again that  the talk about generating manufacturing activity all revolved around exports. Haven't they noticed that global trade is staggering? How about encouraging manufacturers to make goods to replace imports to the domestic markets? There are good profits available making mouse traps at the right price, salvation will not be 100% high-tech.

I note also that nobody has mentioned farming. Still one of our high value industries and high time action was taken against supermarkets to get farm gate prices above cost of production. We import a lot of food and 25% of basic food producers are running at a loss.  What many people don't realise is that reduced prices in supermarket offers on food are financed wholly by reductions in price paid to farmers, not by supermarkets lowering their profits. We learned in 1939 that farming is an essential industry in hard times, perhaps it's time to read the history!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 09:00
Off into the shed but I have just heard the EU president making a speech in Brussells saying basically that the UK has acted badly and if the Euro fails it will be our fault. Really? Isn't it wonderful how people need scapegoats. Who was running their economies? Certainly not the UK. Perhaps others may be asking the same question and wondering why this has even been mentioned. Could it be that they themselves are pessimistic about the effects of the more rigorous fiscal measures, too little and perhaps too late?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Whyperion
Regular Member


122 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 09:27
As soon as the Euro was proposed I said that some kind of Tax Harmony, standardised interest rates and common political control was necessary for it to work. That is fairly basic A Level Economics so where the educated geniuses in UK Foreign Office , Treasury and the EU Commission actually are totally escapes me. 

Oddly I thought Cameron and Osborne were all in favour of prudent governmental expenditure limits so why they simply didnt say that what the EU proposed was a good thing for the Euro Currency members but would not be suitable for the UK given its more independent trading around the world and desire to manage its own economic affairs but that our experts would work with EU to help them reach their economic goals. ( So we become not so much playing the game , but a pretty good refeeree )


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 10:38


quote:
Stanley wrote:
 Could it be that they themselves are pessimistic about the effects of the more rigorous fiscal measures, too little and perhaps too late?

Or is it that they KNOW what the result is going to be and they want everyone to go down with the boat.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 14/12/2011 : 06:23
Catty, I suspect they are desperate people. Interesting that UK markets went up against the global trend yesterday on news of the veto. Euro fell against the dollar. Bond rates unaffected. News of delays in ratifying the new arrangements in the 26. All these indicators point the wrong way.

More rational assessment of the EU summit is that our veto distracted attention from the fact that the summit itself was a failure as it does nothing to address the real problem. Most worrying aspect is that the ECB (largely financed by Germany) is holding back on full scale participation. They issued an estimate that Euro banks need €115billion injection before end of first quarter of 2012 and no signs where it will come from.

All the signs point to Euro failure. It may well be that at the moment the ECB sees no reason to invest in a busted flush. This raises doubts about Merkel commitment  to the proposed scheme. Remember that EU is same size economy as US and at the moment there is no incentive for anyone to own Euros. There could be more external events. As far as I can see the train wreck continues unabated.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 14/12/2011 : 06:25
PS. The same indices point to the correctness of Cameron's use of the veto. We should wait and see before committing to any further involvement in the EU.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tardis
Regular Member


453 Posts
Posted - 14/12/2011 : 10:41
The markets are now rounding on the weakness of the actual agreement from the Eurozone.

The markets have decided that it is not strong enough and has far too many gaps. Euro now very weak.

Interesting to listen to the comments on the World Tonight yesterday from the correspondants of the PIIGS

Telegraph has today picked up the RBS report...only 3 politicians mentioned...Bliar, Brown, Balls


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