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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 06:11
So cars driving more slowly and road safety campaigns have had no effect. Really? Evidence?

As for cost, install speed cameras and enforce the law. They will pay for themselves. Even when I was driving I thought that 30mph was too fast in urban areas. Go to any small mid-west town in the US and note the speed that people drive, it's a question of mind-set and makes a tremendous difference to life in those towns.

Have look at this LINK for some intersting statistics which show we are one of the leading countries in the world in road safety.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 10:20
Political commentator Matthew Parris writing in The Times about the NoW phone tapping made an interesting aside. He expressed surprise that the celebs and politicos appeared to be so ignorant of the fact that mobile phones are not secure and that they should seek compensation for this insecure information being accessed by others. The phones of nobodies like me may well be safe because no-one is interested in my calls. But the calls of people in the public eye will always be an attraction and are bound to get accessed.


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panbiker
Senior Member


2300 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 11:41
I have no problem with a 20 mph limit apart from the fact that it cannot legally be enforced as legislation stands at the moment. There will need to be a change in legislation, mindset and policy to make it work.

I heard a repeat of something I heard at the weekend this morning to the effect that our illustrious government are now intending to sell off some of our forests in further efforts to save money. I find this equally as disgusting and senseless as the scrapping of Nimrod that 6 ex defence chiefs have felt it nescesary to describe as "perverse".

Nimrod will leave a massive hole in the defence capability of the Nation and selling of vast areas of remaining forest will devastate rural areas for wildlife support as well as recreational pursuits for many. Bloody disgraceful

Edited by - panbiker on 27/01/2011 11:47:09


Ian Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 11:48
I agree with you Ian on both counts but I'm surprised it has taken so long for the defence chiefs to react to the Nimrod cancellation. I hope they react faster to any attempts to invade the UK!


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panbiker
Senior Member


2300 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 11:57
Yes Tiz, the NW News last night showed the JCB wrecker slicing up a couple of perfectly good serviceable aircraft yesterday at Wharton. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Why could they not simply mothball them for future use once they have saved the economy as they have promised their strategy will. Developing a replacement for them when money is available will cost billions.


Ian Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 14:07


quote:
Stanley wrote:
So cars driving more slowly and road safety campaigns have had no effect. Really? Evidence?



p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }

There are three very big problems with road safety and which, until they are sorted out properly, will result in very little difference being made to road accidents statistics, no matter what speed restrictions are imposed or how.


1) As long as Insurance Companies continue to relieve the vehicle driver/owner from the full monetary liability of the consequences of his/her actions a certain amount of cavalier attitide will always exist.

“I'm alright Jack...my cost are covered.” The insurance companies promote this view, but do their damnedest to avoid paying out. Some costs are eventually paid out, but the costs to the family of the loss of a breadwinner and parent is paid out by whom? Certainly not to the driver.(.... if it was his fault). If they did there would be a very rapid reduction in road accidents.

2) We live in a society where we are almost submerged in Health and Safety legislation to the point that we are looked after and cosseted at every point of our daily lives, from the quality of our food and drink to the environment in which we exist (you can not call it “living” these days). It is therefore ingrained in the subconcious that safety in all things is assured, and any breach of that safety must be someone elses failing.

However...in schools today it appears as though the one thing missing from the curiculum is “how to be a successful pedestrian”. They are taught about sex from a very early age, but the need for safe passage across the street is a much more common occurrence than the need for safe sex round the back of the bike shed. The entire curiculum is a waste of time if the pupil is wiped out under a bus because road safety was not included in it. Nevertheless pupils are allowed to wander across roads with the minimum of training, and their attitudes, generally, seem to suggest that they have, in some way, learned one thing about traffic, and that is that they are very special little people who have right of way under any circumstance, and the younger they are the more this is demonstrated.


3) It is always surprising me that in every town in the country vehicles are passing only inches away from pedestrians with so very few untoward occurences. With the amount of jostling and pram pushing that goes on it is amazing. It demonstrates how good most drivers are. It also demonstrates how hypocritical and hidebound the Professional OBE seeking Road Safety Lobby is when it comes to actually doing something possitive.

If a farmer wants to keep his sheep separate from field of turnips he erects a fence. He needs to make provision for moving his sheep and may need to erect a further fences to facilitate this, but it will ensure that his turnips are kept safe. If he wants to take his sheep over to the other side of the river he builds a bridge.


 I have a feeling that if these factors were corrected both drivers and pedestrians would alter their outlooks and speed limits would be unnecessary.  


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 18:28
The Nimrods shown on TV being broken have never had an Engine Fitted or had any Kit fitted at all. Technology has overtaken the Nimrod they would be useless in any Conflict situation, plus we don't have the Fighters to protect them. The Nimrod has very very limited defences againt attack. LF is the way to go to monitor Submarines passing through the North Sea
 !!! Tizer I thought the same thing about the Defence Chiefs I wonder who woke them up ??

Would we ever be into a conflict involving Submarines without the US  I don't think so, and I think neither would you.

Edited by - frankwilk on 27/01/2011 6:30:31 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 18:40
" Go to any small mid-west town in the US and note the speed that people drive, it's a question of mind-set and makes a tremendous difference to life in those towns."

Stanley The Americans you write about Aren't Going Anywhere they are just bumbling around Town !!! If your going anywhere in the US you are on the Interstate. Your not looking at like for like again. You will be advocating 4 way stops next instead of traffic lights, they do work in small hick towns though.
Just pointing out the reason they bumble around is because they aren't Going Anywhere.
With regards to Aberdeen it is the first City in the UK to have a blanket 20mph speed limit in the city, and no one obeys it !!! The Police can't Police it. I shudder to think how much it cost to put the 20 mph signs up.
Cars now have NCAP tests for Driver,Passenger and Pedestrians. oh and they have  ABS Brakes,Better Lights etc. See  things have moved on since you was a lad and a man with a flag walked in front of the car.lolol That's some of the reasons why 30 mph is safe.



Edited by - frankwilk on 27/01/2011 8:18:29 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 20:10
It may be that I have given the impression that I am not interested in road safety, but that is far from the case. I append a coy of a letter that I sent to that stalwart Road Safety fiend John Prescott in 1990, when he was minister of Environment, Tranport and anything else that no one wanted.

 

24/4/00

Dear Mr. Prescot,



I am looking for funding to complete the development of what is probably the most advanced road safety feature ever devised for use in motor cars. I have most of the detail worked out, but before I start to manufacture the final prototype I need to know if your Dept. would be prepared to stand some of the cost, since trying to do this work on an old age pension is not easy, (even after this last, more than generous, increase.) It will, without doubt, (or unquestionably, as you politicians like to say,) eliminate all road deaths and casualties presently caused by cars. I can also say, with certainty, that if fitted to wagons, coaches, buses etc. it would have exactly the same effect. Unfortunately it can not be fitted to bicycles or horses (yet).


It would fit in perfectly with your own personal aspirations, as far as motorists are concerned, in as much as it will still permit the motorist to spend as much time as he likes in his car, without causing traffic congestion or pollution. It will also save vast sums of money by minimising damage to roads and additionally reducing the amount of money needed to be spent in the upkeep of the immeasurable acres of red tarmac now necessary on our roads, thus allowing the Government to spend the road fund licence fees on other more appropriate projects.


It could be fitted as original equipment on any car, by any manufacturer, but I suspect that its fitting would have to be legally obligatory for cars sold in this country, as I can not see any of our European partners being so forward looking and dynamic as our current u.k. Government. This could be where harmonisation and “egalite” (Fr.) comes in.

 

 

The device is quite simple, and obviously I am not going to give you the precise details of its structure nor its electronic circuitry. However, what happens is this. The engine is electronically prevented from being started until the gearbox is in neutral and the hand brake is fully applied (this would need testing for MOT certification). When this set of conditions appertain the driver is allowed to start the engine, but, just as a gear is selected, and as the hand brake released, out of a compartment built into the dash, just alongside the ignition key, comes a miniature hand, and turns off the engine. Perfection!


I look forward to receiving positive details of how much your dept. would be prepared to grant me towards the completion of this inestimable contribution to road safety.


edit :- he never replied.  
 

Edited by - catgate on 27/01/2011 8:12:41 PM


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 20:34
In town limits here usually 60km, occasionally 40km, schools and construction zones 20kim.  Biggest cause of accidents these days ...TEXTING while driving...will be illegal all aacross Canada later this year.  Fatalities are higher in rural areas rather than in urban areas.  Toronto/Ontario among the lowest in the world 4.2 deaths per 100,000 population annually.  Expressways are 100km but 120kim is usual speed.


HERB


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Phil
Regular Member


104 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 21:52
In Australia, one of the biggest fast car cultures in the world, there are 40kpm limits around schools when the students are arriving and leaving. These are always impeccably observed, even by the petrolheads as the fines that are served for speeders are large and the enforcement is tough. Perhaps the same could be done here if government and councils were serious about saving lives and not just paying lip service.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 27/01/2011 : 22:54
As usual Frank you  are talking tripe. ANY measure to reduce traffic speed in built-up areas will result in fewer deaths .....

Driving at an inappropriate speed in any given circumstance is dangerous.....

Are we to understand that you take no notice of the 20MPH restriction in Aberdeen , because you think it won't result in a penalty ?

 

 


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 05:34
You should read my posts Frank instead of spluttering off into Frankworld. The whole point of my post was speed limits in towns and of course they aren't on a long journey, they are doing what 90% of Barlick traffic does, school pick-up, shopping etc. As for bumbling towns, Let's hear it for a town the size of Barlick which has its own fire service, police, hospital and no booze problem on the streets at night. They must be doing something right!

Brad is right. If a 20mph limit isn't working it's because it isn't being policed, not because the concept is wrong.

Ian, I saw the clips as well and wondered at our stupidity in wrecking a £6billion investment. Frank, your argument about them being sitting ducks to air attack doesn't wash when they are being used for things like border security etc. Or are there hostile aircraft over Aberdeen? The thought that came into my jead was how the workers at Woodford and Wharton who will loose their jobs would be feeling as they watched the destruction. Add harriers, carriers and the expected cuts in the Typhoon and it makes you wonder what use Trident would be in any future combat. Any talk about us having a 'defence policy' just gets a hollow laugh from me. We have a Min of Defence that by all measurements is a failed organisation whatever criteria you apply. Contract it out to the French? They could run it like the Foreign Legion.....


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 07:43


quote:
catgate wrote:


However...in schools today it appears as though the one thing missing from the curiculum is “how to be a successful pedestrian”.

I feel the need to contradict here. My wife works in a Barnoldswick primary school and road safety is on the curriculum...


Big Kev

It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always end up with the government. Go to Top of Page

Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 08:56
I've said it before, but if you are serious about preventing children meeting violent ends at the hands of strangers, then one of the best things you can do is implement a 20mph speed limit in built up areas.  I would have thought this was a no-brainer as after all, we appear a society obsessed with dangers to children from strangers.

 
Also, I reckon one of the best things we could do to get folk to drive safely, is to insist car manufactures design in a 6" metal spike right in the centre of the steering wheel......This will of course never happen, but it illustrates clearly the notion of an individual's 'risk thermostat'.

 
Richard Broughton


Edited by - Bruff on 28/01/2011 08:56:43 AM


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