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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted -  22/03/2010  :  11:53
I wrote some time ago that I was intending to make my first attempt at building a computer and promised that I would relate the story here on OGFB. I bit the bullet about 10 days ago, ordered the components on-line from Dabs, received them last week and dived into action.

I ran into a problem due to being sent a faulty motherboard which Dabs replaced, so the following posts describe a lot of work sorting out what was wrong before we realised it was the motherboard. Read these posts if you want all the details. If you want just the description of how the PC was built without details of the glitch I've now written it up later in this thread. See it on page 8.


Edited by - Tizer on 06/05/2010 10:35:18


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 11:58
The intention was to build a fairly powerful PC for general office work and home use from parts bought at Dabs.com. Not an ultra-powerful gaming PC but one that could cope with multiple applications open simultaneously and with big files. I wanted to start with an Intel processor and used this benchmark web page to choose one that provided good performance without straying into high-priced gaming territory: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html

The other parts were chosen from what was in stock at Dabs to be compatible with this processor and with each other (by checking the spec on the Dabs pages and the manufacturers' web pages). The headings from the relevant Dabs pages are here:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 2.50GHz LGA775 FSB1333 4Mb Retail £120
Motherboard: Asus S775 Intel P43 ATX DDR2 Audio & Gigabit Ethernet £61
Memory: Kingston ValueRAM 2x2GB 667MHz DDR2 Non-ECC £75
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB 7200RPM S300 16MB £41 each
Graphics card: Best Value POV GeForce 8400GS 450Mhz 512MB PCI-Express DVI £31
DVD drive: Best Value LiteOn 24x Int. DVDRW Black SATA + S/W  £14.10
Case: Best Value Shiny Black Midi Case 450W  £26.27

I bought two hard disk drives because I want one as a back-up. Monitor, keyboard and mouse were not needed because I already have them. I would have gone for a motherboard with onboard graphics (so that a graphics card was not needed) but none of them was fully compatible with the other components. I took the precaution of showing the list of components to Pluggy (Stephen Taylforth) to make sure I hadn't made any obviously bad choices.

I fitted the processor (CPU), its heat sink, and the memory modules with the motherboard outside the case, taking care not to damage the board. (Throughout the work I've taken care to `earth' myself to the case or other metal objects.) The two matched DDR2 memory modules were put into sockets of the same colour as instructed. After fitting the`stand-offs' to the case, I placed the motherboard in position and fixed the 6 screws. Then I attached the graphics card to the PCI x16 slot. Finally all the leads were attached and a check made to ensure everything was ready for a test with the monitor and keyboard.

With everything ready I switched on and got - nothing! No fan, nothing on screen, no beeps but, fortunately, no smoke or sparks or fire. I rechecked all the leads, the mains switch, the power unit switch etc and tried again. Still nothing. I've now tried a number of tests and I'm still basically at this same point.   (Continued in next post...)

Edited by - Tizer on 22/03/2010 12:02:11


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 12:00
When I throw the power switch on the case power unit an LED lights up on the motherboard next to the two pins where the front panel power switch connects (PWR SW), so I know power gets to that point. Also the keyboard lights (Num Lock etc) flash once but then stay off. When I press the Start button on the front panel of the case nothing appears on the monitor. The case fan and CPU fan do not run, no case LEDs light, only the motherboard LED is lit. I've checked the power unit and it seems OK and done some other tests. Also, I took the computer apart and started again but got the same result.

I scoured the Internet to try and find a solution for a similar situation and followed some advice to test various aspects. These are listed below together with general observations. I'm neither an electrician nor a computer engineer so my options are limited.

1. The following are connected when I try to start the PC. Mains cable to PC, monitor to graphics card and monitor to power, keyboard to PS2 socket and keyboard to power. The following are connected to the motherboard: power unit 24-pin cable, 12v ATX power cable, CPU fan cable, front panel power switch cable and reset cable and LEDs and audio cable.

2. I did the `paper clip' test on the case power unit, shorting the green lead on the main 24-pin connector to the black earth. This ran the fan OK so I conclude that the unit is OK and it is feeding power to the motherboard connection. This is supported by the observation that the motherboard LED lights up (assuming that its power comes from the case unit) and the keyboard flashes (although that only proves power in the instant after switching on the power unit).

3. I checked to make sure it wasn't a faulty Start button on the front panel by the recommended method of shorting across the two motherboard pins that receive the cable from this button. Everything was switched on but shorting did not start the computer. After re-attaching the Start button cable I disconnected the Reset cable and tried again but still the computer would not start (apparently it is known for the Restart button to malfunction and prevent the PC starting).

4. The monitor had been working OK on another PC but I also checked it again by disconnecting from the new computer and switching on - it gave the expected `No signal' warning.

5. Also checked the keyboard on another PC.

6. To check the motherboard was not shorting to the case I disconnected and removed it from the case, sat it on the anti-static material that it came packed in, re-made the connections then tried starting the PC. Got the same results as above.

7. Disconnected everything and re-built the computer, including taking out the heat sink and processor. After the rebuild the results were exactly as before.

8. I've also tried the following. Connected the power unit to a different mains wall socket and used a different mains cable. Used different keyboards and monitors.

With my limited knowledge of such things I would guess that power is getting to the motherboard but the board is not sending a signal for things to start up. The power gets to the motherboard LED. I'm wondering now if one of the components is faulty. I assume a faulty processor or heat sink could cause the problem I'm seeing. It could be a faulty motherboard but would the board LED light up if this were the case? A faulty graphics card could stop me getting a signal to the monitor but would it stop the power unit fan working? I'm not sure if the memory modules could cause such a problem - I thought that a computer would still fire up into the BIOS with duff memory and then display what was wrong (i.e. zero MB of RAM).

If anyone can bear reading through all this and making suggestions I'd be grateful!

Edited by - Tizer on 22/03/2010 12:28:30


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 12:00
I will be following this closely Tizer as I am thinking of replacing most of the major components in my rig with faster and more up to date units, ie, motherboard, proccesor and memory. Good luck with it Tizer. Afterthought make sure all is well earthed, try turning off the power at the socket but leave the plug in, then press the start button for about 50 seconds, it may be a build up of static and be careful as static can cause lasting damage.

Edited by - thomo on 22/03/2010 12:05:36 PM


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 12:12
Thanks Thomo, my impression is that the majority of people, even beginners like me, either find it works first time or have a simple problem like missing a connector. I'm trying to keep calm! I'll try your suggestion. At one stage when I took the mains plug out of the socket after the PC had failed to start yet again my hand must have touched one of the plug's pins and I got quite a strong static shock. Presumably static can build up in the power unit and backfire like that. I've never had it from a plug before though.

Edited by - Tizer on 22/03/2010 12:16


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Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 12:17
I have great admiration for your efforts Tize. Nolic


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 12:41
Thanks comrade. I've tried Thomo's suggestion but to no avail.


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 13:50
If there was enough static to give you a clout there is a possibilty of damage, or if you got the jolt before pushing the "On switch" it could be a wrong connection, i'll go through it again do not unplug from power scource,turn power off at socket then press start switch, if there is a build up you can usualy hear a "click" from the base unit as the static is discharged. Keep trying, if at first etc.


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Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 14:59
Are you 100% sure the board isn't shorting on the case? Trying firing it up with the board on the desk, rather than in the case.


Big Kev

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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 15:06
No, I didn't get the static shock from what you suggested Thomo - you had warned me to take care. The bit I related about the shock was from on the weekend when I had simply removed the plug from the mains (sorry, when I edited the post above it ended up looking like it resulted from doing your suggested test). Also I don't think it played any part in not being able to start the new PC - I had already had the failed start and done a number of futher attempts after tests etc.


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 17:23
Have a look in your motherboard manual to see if the board gives "beep" codes. Most boards do, as a general rule you should hear 1 beep when the POST (power on self test) starts. The POST test does a basic check on the board interfaces and CMOS memory (BIOS) that stores your motherboard startup configuration. (the board should run on defaults and at least give something on the screen if the Video interface is operational. You can try disconnecting everything apart from power into the board and the speaker. If you run a board up without memory it may give you 8 beeps. If you do the same with memory but without a video card it may give 4 beeps. Look in the manual or go onto the board manufacturers website and search for diagnostic codes or something similar. I would also concurr with Kev, make sure you are not earthing the board to the case at some point. You can do the beep tests on the bench outside of the case if the leads will reach.

In case you are wondering, this information comes off the back of 10 years as a PC system builder when I ran my own business.

I will have a look on the web and see if I can get some info on your board.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 17:33
I'm feeling for you Peter but don't have anything useful to say apart from the general point whatever the type of machinery, if you are using new parts they are almost certainly OK. If the engine doen't start go back and check everything you have done including in your case re-making all the connections. It will almost certainly be something dead simple like a missed connection.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 17:33
Forgot to say, let Janet have a look at it....  Good luck!


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Sue
Senior Member


4201 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 17:52
All our early computers were bult by Bob. At work when they asked me what sort of computer I had... well it was not possible to answer. Seriously though if you have a problem Bob may be able to help out

 Sue


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 17:57
Tiz, can you get the actual model number of the Motherboard either off the box or the MB itself. I cannot find your board from the information you have given so far on the Asus website. The website does mention beep codes in the general troubleshooting area so you should be hearing something even if you see nothing on the screen.

If the board has a built in Piezo sounder you should definately hear something shortly after switch on.

How to get your model number:

http://support.asus.com/repair/repair.aspx?root=110&SLanguage=en-us

 

Edited by - panbiker on 22/03/2010 17:58:44


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 22/03/2010 : 18:52
I have downloaded the manual for a PQ5 PRO board which I think is somewhere near yours. The appendix does indeed include diagnostic beep codes. A little different from what I suggested earlier but beeps nevertheless. Various combinations of long and short beebs will signify different fault conditions. Make sure your system speaker is connected properly on the header, are you using the Q connector? The led on the MB is a standby power indicator. The fact that your CPU fan is not working could indicate that the board cannot route power correctly.  or that the PSU may be faulty. I see there are 3 fan connectors on the board, are you using the right one for the CPU?

Maybe you could attach a picture of your connections.


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