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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  11/01/2009  :  06:04
New Year, new topic. If you want to see the old one do a forum search for same title but 2008.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 07/04/2011 : 20:29


quote:
Bradders wrote:
Bill Rodgers , actually.

Oooops , sorry ! ....That wasn't intended to sound gruff , but Bill was the other member of the SDP's founding  "Gang of Four".....

Edited by - Bradders on 07/04/2011 01:20:00 AM

Bill Rodgers ....Roy Rodger... Trigger.....Tonto ...Hiho Silver..Shirley Williams.... They were a jolly good turn but they were on long enough.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 07/04/2011 : 21:32
Frank. Do not edit my posts, write your own  Touchy !!

First time I have been accused of that, I do write my own, I only added the bit you missed ie at times.
That wasn't editing your post,
I added to something you had wrote ( never removed anything)   and then quoted which is a different thing altogether, well it is in my opinion.

Roy Rogers now he must have been a non entity if we couldn't remember him. This must have been the worst bunch in recent history to try to start a new party. How any of these clowns made  a Front Bench I still wonder. It was just a phase in politics when no one stood out, like today really !!! 

Edited by - frankwilk on 07/04/2011 9:44:37 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 00:53


quote:
frankwilk wrote:, "I only added the bit you missed ".....  "I added to something you had wrote"
Edited by - frankwilk on 07/04/2011 9:44:37 PM
Lucky for you that Ernie Wise is no longer with us , Frank ....... Litigation avoided !

Cheers.

 


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 04:29
"That wasn't editing your post, I added to something you had wrote". Get a dictionary from the library and look up the meaning outside Frankworld.

I heard Osborne yesterday telling us that instead of criticising the cuts we should be reflecting on what is happening to the economies of Portugal, Greece and Ireland. This is blatant use of fear to reinforce a political message. Taken at face value and if he thinks this is correct, it demonstrates his lack of knowledge of economics. If he knows that there is no direct comparison between these economies and ours but used the comparison anyway this is the worst form of political chicanery and in the end will rebound on him. In his response to Eden's lies about Suez in 1956 Nye Bevan said that if he didn't know the truth he wasn't fit to hold office and if he did he was too wicked. Exactly!

What he should have been focusing on was the damage these events do to the EU where half our exports go to. Germany makes 28% of EU manufactured goods and therefore is the strongest economy and is hit hardest by bailing out the failing economies. This is already having negative effects on their political and economic policies. Add to this the rise in base interest rate yesterday in the EU and we have a real threat to the UK recovery which, despite all the hype hasn't yet taken off into solid recovery. Add again the effects the ConDem cuts will increasingly have on domestic consumption as personal disposeable income falls, by far the most important driver of the economy and we get near a true picture. There is more, The Bank of England has been under pressure for a while to increase our base rate. They have resisted so far on the grounds that our inflation growth is temporary. Expect them to start rising. All these factors combine against us and I haven't even mentioned external shocks. Instead of using fear as a political weapon, Osborne should be examining the true state of the economy and considering Plan 'B'. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to do anything effective.

I heard Ed Balls lecturing Osborne on the importance of the 'Fiscal Multiplier' in the House the other day. Pity he and Godron didn't give this a thought when they threw the kitty to the banks. The interesting thing about the EU bail-outs is that one of the drivers for doing this is the exposure of the banks to losses if these ailing economies renege on their debts. Ask youreslf what is actually driving policy both in the EU and the UK. Truly the Masters of the Universe!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 24/04/2011 : 08:11

SPRING 2011

I've neglected the NOPS of late, my time has been largely taken up with transcribing the Calf Hall Shed Minute Books. That's going well, I have the transcriptions finished and have started on proofing and checking formatting. It keeps me off the street corners and someone somewhere will be pleased eventually because at last they will have a coherent body of hard evidence from a prime source about how the Shed Companies operating Room and Power mills functioned. The nice thing is that CHSC started relatively late and used what was by then a well-proven and standard business model in NE Lancashire. Time for an overview of my world I think!

All is well on the family front, seven years after the event, the legal traumas of Big Harry's death finally reached a conclusion in August last year, my daughters are all doing well and we're all talking to each other. The granddaughters are coping with with growing into beautiful young women and young Harry is carrying on in his own parallel universe and no doubt reviewing his options. I am as fit as a butcher's dog and still happy working hard on the local history research. In short, things could be a lot worse!

Nationally we are of course fighting our way through the aftermath of the cock-up manufactured by The Lords of the Universe in the casino banks. Of course the current government blames it all on the 13 year Labour administration but refuses to read the history and admit that every government since 1960 is at fault, so nothing new there then, Friedman and the Chicago School Economics still rules, OK? (Have you read Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'?. A brilliant and frightening overview. Do we need another Glass-Steagall Act?)

One of the consequences here was that in the 2010 General Election no party got an overall majority and after the usual horse-trading we ended up with a Conservative/Liberal coalition. One of the consequences of reading history is that you soon realise that in terms of fitness for purpose, the best administration we have seen in the last 100 years was the wartime coalition under Churchill in which tribal politics was almost totally superseded by the imperative to survive. I know it's simplistic but I would have thought that present circumstances would have been best approached by a similar coalition of the talents. Problem is of course that we don't seem to have the necessary talents!

I know I'm showing my age when I say this but all I see is whey-faced career politicians from privileged backgrounds who have no experience of the more abrasive facets of life like poverty and war and have never done a hard day's physical work in their lives. Give the Tory Grandee and scion of Blenheim his due, he saw nothing wrong in appointing Ernie Bevin, West Country truck driver and leader of the Transport and General Workers Union to be his Minister of Labour. After the war Churchill was unstinting in his praise of the way Ernie had performed and one thing that struck me was that during a trip abroad, to Yalta I think, Winston was astounded when he found out that Ernie had to put his own socks on in the morning so he arranged for him to have a batman to act as his valet. History doesn't record what Ernie thought about this but it demonstrates the difference between the two men's world view. The point is that despite this gulf in experience, they worked together for the common good and respected each other.

What do we see now in the ConDem coalition? At best an uneasy truce based on gaining and retaining political office. At worst a series of poisonous relationships where tribal disputes flame into life and are usually settled by accepting the Tory view. One of the major factors in building the coalition was Tory agreement to allow a referendum on the Liberal's key policy of moving the election process away from First Past the Post to Proportional Representation. After much argument this was negotiated as an Alternative Vote system and on May 5th we get our referendum on this half-way measure. Much is made by the No camp of the fact that only four small countries in the world use this system, ignoring of course the many systems working on PR. As the elections get closer the virulence of the debate increases with Cameron and Clegg attacking each other in public. Meanwhile, ordinary voters like me sit back and reflect that this is no way to run a railway, let alone a country.

So what do I think? Based on my understanding of history, we have been here before in the 1930s. We applied exactly the same economic policies that the ConDem government is pursuing and they didn't work, the only thing that saved us was WW2 and a reversion to deficit financing with the money strictly controlled and directed to where it would act most efficiently. Where we stand now is that the Trillions have been borrowed and thrown at the banks to save them, we are told that 'We Are All In This Together' but the deficit is to be clawed back by squeezing the bottom 85% of the electorate 'til the pips squeak. So what's new.....

We will survive of course eventually but at tremendous cost. What really bugs me is that I see lots of politics but no statesmanship. I detect no altruistic principles aimed at betterment of the life of the disadvantaged. I see the gap between the richest and the poor widen at an increasing speed. I see social improvements hard bought by struggle over the last century being eroded. Our Prime Minister publicly supports nepotism and the maintenance of the status quo for his class. Any move towards progressive taxation is stifled at birth and public protest is seen as a threat to government. I have to stop, I could become boring.

My problem is of course that I can remember the Atlee government of 1945 which, despite financial problems far greater than those we have now, pursued a programme of reform that changed our lives and made us the envy of the world. I can remember the unity and sense of purpose that six years of war engendered and the feeling that we really all were in it together. All that sacrifice paid a dividend which we still enjoy now. My question is do I see any dividend from our current policies. Unfortunately I do but it is not a beneficial one. I see a more divided society. I see progress being measured by the ability to consume. I see avenues of advancement for the truck drivers of the West Country closing down.

In the 1930s another Tory grandee, Harold Macmillan, wrote a book called 'The Middle Way' in which he argued for a course mid-way between the rampant laissez faire capitalism of the 19th century and rabid left wing revolutionary policies. He failed of course in his aim when in power because he had to trim his sails towards politics and away from statesmanship. Just before he died he noted that when he was MP for Stockton on Tees the unemployment rate was 29%, in 1986 it was 28%. He said it was “rather sad”. He was right.

SCG/24/04/11


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 23/05/2011 : 06:40
Despite all its faults one of the main arguments for the power of the internet has always been that it gives the people a voice and encourages true democracy. We've seen plenty of evidence of that in the Arab Spring etc. The thing that has attracted my attention of late is the universal attack on our draconian super injunctions. The recent case of the IMF boss raises the question whether he has been protected for years by the strict French privacy legislation.  The flood gates seem to have opened and one MP described what is happening as the biggest outbreak of civil disobedience ever. Not sure about that but it seems as though the super injunctions are no protection for the people spending a fortune obtaining them. It looks as though we are going to see a rethink by the judges. People power may be working! The law can't be seen to be an ass!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 23/05/2011 : 07:08
I heard someone say the other day about super injunctions. Newspaper say that it is in the Public Interest to publish this c*ap. Which is C*rap, all they are interested in is selling more Tabloid Newspapers to a bunch of morons who buy their c*ap.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 23/05/2011 : 07:46
 " a bunch of morons who buy their c*ap."

 So all the opinion is wrong again.....  I don't know why they bother.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 23/05/2011 : 08:45
What opinion is that Stanley ?? Are you really interested in an Old Footballers Sexual  Affairs ?? I think that is called titilation, that sells Newspapers??  It's a media Circus and Lawyers Circus and nothing else. Clarke and his Rape comments have gone away, which needed to be debated. These are Just storms in Tea Cups, and nothing more. I think all the opinion is Media opinion !!!
See the USA is getting deeper into Debt by the Day, this Administration is a Busted Flush time for a change !!! They are good at words but nothing has changed in the past 4 years that I can detect. Oh and I spoke for over 4 hours yesterday with an American and that was her opinion to.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2011 : 06:05
Fizz away Frank. My post still stands.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2011 : 07:34
Stanley your post is like the Newspaper articles it is trash and you know it. You have no explanation for the Circus are you really interested in Celebs ?? Political surrounding Fraud Corruption etc no Judge in the land would issue an injunction, but this is just rubbish.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2011 : 07:44
I have deleted a  post I mde earlier which was negative and childish.  Nolic


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2011 : 09:06
Well I suppose one could dismiss the on-going injunction saga involving a now-named footballer as 'celeb' tittle-tattle for the masses and of no interest, whilst suggesting similar sagas involving others as anything but tittle-tattle and of interest.  But that rather misses the bigger picture where it is wholly irrelevant who is involved and why. 

 
We have at the moment a tightly regulated broadcast media, a more lightly regulated print media and then an unregulated and frankly anarchic 'twittersphere'.  What we do about this is a pressing issue I suggest.  That said Frank, not for the first time you are wrong in assuming 'no judge' would issue a superinjunction on a political/fraud etc matter.  Trafigura ring any bells?

 
Obama's here.  The Government are hoping for an endorsement, no matter how oblique, from the President for their deficit reduction plans which match very closely in scale, if not in speed, the US's plans tabled last month.  The US aims for a reduction in the deficit to under 4% of GDP by 2017; we plan for a reduction to just under 2% by 2015.  Both of course help lessen the increase in debt if not start reducing it. 

 
Given that these plans are in the scheme of things very similar, are you calling for a change in administration in this country Frank?  Or just the US, so they can return to the political class which tripled their deficit in less than a decade?

 
Richard Broughton



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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2011 : 10:11
Frank what is your opinion about the Scottish councils like Dumbarton and Dundee who have banned the sale of Israeli books?


Life is what you make itGo to Top of Page
Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 24/05/2011 : 10:39


quote:
Another wrote:
I have deleted a  post I mde earlier which was negative and childish.  Nolic

Doh ! .....Missed that one.

It wasn't about an extended holiday in France or Belgium , by any chance, was it ?


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
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