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turner
New Member
7 Posts
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 Posted -
13/06/2011
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20:24
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Hi,
what does anyone think about the possibility of Fernbank Mill in Barlick being demolished in the near future?
Is this a good thing?
Are there any reasons why it shouldn't be?
The owner is seeking permission to demolish it.
Please let me know what you think...........
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elise
Regular Member
70 Posts
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 Posted - 24/08/2011 : 14:44
I know the people doing the job, spoke to them, they came across an underground oil tank which caught fire
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Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
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Posted - 24/08/2011 : 15:09
How did it catch fire?
They don't normally spontaneously combust.
=================== www.sheldrickrose.co.ukwww.bernulf.co.ukwww.bernulfsplace.co.uk |
elise
Regular Member
70 Posts
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Posted - 24/08/2011 : 15:26
"They don't normally spontaneously combust"
Unless helped by a oxy/act torch
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blokman
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Posted - 24/08/2011 : 21:33
I offered the mill ledgers to LCC that I inherited when we purchased part of Kearns Mill in Cowpe.
I couldn't believe it when told that I had to sign a disclaimer allowing the ledgers to be destroyed if storage became an issue!!
Needless to say, they have lived under the stair hole ever since..
Have the council now adopted a different policy?
www.robinsharples.co.uk |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 25/08/2011 : 05:30
Ring Lancashire Record Office and have a word with Katherine Cooke. Sensible lady and has never asked me to sign any disclaimers. She'll sort you out.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 25/08/2011 : 05:46
Old oil tanks. Dangerous beasties, not because of the oil but explosive gases even if they are 'empty'. Sounds as though someone took a chance. Best way if you ever come across one is get onto Neston Tank Cleaners who will clean it out and give you a 24hour Gas Certificate and you can unzip it with confidence. A wonderful firm, they leave the tanks spotless but of course it's expensive.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
marilyn
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Posted - 27/08/2011 : 08:02
An amazing coincidence. We are in the process of demolishing an old dump of a house, and it is not cheap (especially when there is asbestos within, which unfortunately there is). Harry the Torch could have come in very handy!
get your people to phone my people and we will do lunch...MAZ |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 28/08/2011 : 06:32
Dangerous to jump to conclusions about fires during demolition. I can assure you that a fire during demolition is no advantage at all to the process. The time when deliberately set fires are used to accelerate a process is before demolition when the subsequent damage can reinforce the case for planning permission and demolition. The classic case was the Telford warehouses at St Katherine's Dock in London which allowed the new hotel to be built on a prime site when the Grade I listed buildings were a barrier to the development. I've had experience of this, Jubilee Engine house was deliberately fired to try to stop it being preserved, luckily the building was airtight and the fire smothared itself before it could get hold properly. In my experience almost all fires during demolition are accidental as part of the process or as a result of vandalism. The oil was described as 'heating oil' and was almost certainly 28second oil, Red Diesel in effect and often used as road fuel. Could someone have been attempting theft of it? More plausible than an act by the contractors.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Invernahaille
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Posted - 28/08/2011 : 13:25
Stanley,
You are absolutely right about the tanks. Many many moons ago I removed the heating oil tanks from Rhodes mill in Middleton. Although the tanks had been vented there was still some residual oil in the pipework , when I cut thro the filler pipe it had a tendency to combust, smoke poured out of the vents like Ellenroad firing up. Naturally I had a a couple of guys standing by with extinguishers, but I seperated them without incident.
They are now at Egerton mill in Bolton. (or at least they were a while ago. ) The mill manufactured quilting if I remember.
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 29/08/2011 : 06:58
Heather, I wasn't there so I don't know what happened but I can assure you that nobody in their right minds would attempt to remove the embarassment of an underground tank containing oil, particularly 28 second oil, by setting fire to it. There is also the question of the demolition contract. If it is the usual one used for demolition the contractor buys the building for a fixed price and makes a profit out of converting the materials by recycling. If that was the case the only responsibility the owners have is for site safety, nothing they do can make any difference to the contract price as long as they don't add extras during the course of the work. If they haven't used the standard contract route and set on a contractor to do the demolition on their behalf they have made a mistake because this is a licence for the contractor to elevate costs and firing the tank would be of no benefit to them. Any problem like an unknown tank containg oil becomes an extra and they get more money.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
billiywhizz
New Member
4 Posts
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Posted - 10/09/2011 : 23:00
the oil tank that was on fire was above ground in the building near to the 2 boilers from what i could see when i had a look the next day , they where still pumping the oil into large slurry type tanks being towed by tractors. when i looked down into the burnt out building from the advantage point of d and h concrete fence at the side of the boiler house.
there was approx 40 ton of sand spread all round the boiler house floor.soaking the spillage up..
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JT
New Member
9 Posts
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Posted - 15/09/2011 : 22:28
OK Ladies & Gentleman... allow me, if I may to put a few things straight here.
I have just this evening read the thread re: the fire at Fernbank Mill and I must say that I am apoplectic with rage following some of the comments...
Callunna... you truly are a mystical 'foreseer' of all things.. how wise with your conclusions of theft, and speeding up of the demolition process and financial gain from insurance companies... I lok forward to my next visit to Blackpool sea front where I will cross your palm with silver and tap into your undoubted wisdom.
Tardis... "odd leaving oil on site...usually the first stuff to go",,, ordinarily it is the asbestos, which is the first thing to go, but again, I should bow to the superior intellect of this forum's members.
Elise... you know the people doing the demolition do you? Well I represent the people doing the demolition and I'm not sure that we know you., but please forgive me if I am incorrect.. There were no underground tanks, and nothing 'caught fire'... as Callunna so eloquently stated, they do not spontaneaously combust... it was set on fire !
Elise... Oxy/Acet !!!!! Do you know something we don't know... should I ask the investigating officer from Lancashire Fire & Rescue to give you a call?
Callunna... Far from speeding up the demolition process, this little episode has set us back 2 weeks; cost us thousands (with no recourse to insurance thanks to arson), and jeopardised our good name in an industry full of those with not such a good name.
Marilyn... comments re: 'Harry the torch' are not helpful, unless of course you and Elise know something about Harry and Oxy/Acet, in which case please enlighten us and the investigating authorities. PS: Asbestos doesn't burn... "muppet"
Stanley... Thank you Sir ! Truly a forum member with intelligence; good sense, and reserved judgement... Sir, you are a sage of some high order indeed.
Now for some facts:
The oil was in an above ground tank and the reason why it had not already been removed from site was that ownership of the oil had not been agreed. Nevertheless it was "safe" in a solid above ground tank; well away from the demolition process.
The oil was 900 second heating oil, which is as thick as some forum members, and which would not accidentally ignite in a month of Sundays (Quote from Lancashire Fire and Rescue)
That day the 'Hot Works' on the site had been completed at 1:00pm... ordinary operations continued until 5:00pm at which 'end of shift' checks were made and all was in order. Overview of site was made at 8:00pm and all remained quiet and in order. 10:00pm we were alerted by our local man at the scene that he cold see some smoke. 10:20 the boss was on site and fire engines had been alerted.
My comments above have largely been made in anger at the largely intellectually vacuous content of this particular thread; save for Stanley's comments, but I can assure you all that we; the demolition contractor, are furious at the recent events and will make all necessary enquiries to find whoever did this (we do strongly suspect who they are !).
On a lighter note, we have been praised by the Environment Agency for the way in which we speedily dealt with the potential disaster, and have been freed from blame by the Lancashire Fire & Rescue, who we would like to thank for their attendance and support during these events.
The salvaged oil will all be recycled by a Company in Liverpool. The contaminated materials, and oil-soaked sands will be sent to licenced landfill near Huddersfield, and the above ground tank has been dismantled using 'cold-cutting' techniques and sent for recycling.
And a final word to the person responsible for this arson attack... watch your back.
Edited by - JT on 16/09/2011 12:17:00 PM
"“Our knowledge can only be finite, while our ignorance must necessarily be infinite.” |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 16/09/2011 : 07:18
JT. Thanks for that. I spent a lot of time with Norman Sutcliffe and that was where I learned my demolition. It was Norman, N&R and my part in Ellenroad Mill that taught me that demolition was actually skilled surgery and essential recycling. Have a look at the early Steeple jack's corner topic, lots of demo men on there and some good stories! Are Neston Tank still in business? They constantly amazed me by the way they could clean 900 second oil and sludge out of large tanks. Wonderful firm, I hope they are still doing well.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
JT
New Member
9 Posts
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Posted - 16/09/2011 : 09:08
Hello Stanley. Demolition is indeed a fine art if done correctly, but we understand that we operate on the very edge of risk; both environmentally and safety-wise, and that people generally have a very poor view of our industry (as demonstrated by the earlier comments within this post)... it's not surprising really when you see how some companies operate... not to mention the 'fly-by-night' pikey scrap and slate theives. Apologies, as 'pikey' is probably not a politically correct term; perhaps I should have said caravan utilising nomadic travellers !
Yes, Neston Tank Cleaners Ltd are still on the go at Knowsley Industrial Estate (www.neston.uk.com), although we haven't used their services, as yet. We have dealt with N&R though.
Kind regards...JT
Edited by - JT on 16/09/2011 12:14:53 PM
"“Our knowledge can only be finite, while our ignorance must necessarily be infinite.” |
JT
New Member
9 Posts
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Posted - 16/09/2011 : 12:00
Dear Callunna... which part did you find offensive "Pikey", perhaps; or "Traveller", it must be a terrific view up there on your moral high horse.
With regard to 'highly offensive', we too found your comments highly offensive... your weakly veiled suggestions were slanderous at least; totally speculative, and I suggest were made to incite a negative reaction...'making observations and asking questions indeed!
"What legitimate demolition task could have been being undertaken at that time of night?"
"theft as the only other plausible explanation"
Questioning that the owner might be their at "10pm"
"speeding up the demolition process and maybe even getting some financial support from an insurance company? ...So that's nice"
Your sarcasm is appaling.
Rather than hide behind suggestion, I prefer to call a spade a shovel (unless of course you find that offensive as well), and if I've upset you, then I apologise, and have removed the anagramatical reference. Isn't that what free-speech is all about... I too am only making observations.
Edited by - JT on 16/09/2011 12:25:35 PM
"“Our knowledge can only be finite, while our ignorance must necessarily be infinite.” |
Fernbank Mill
