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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  29/07/2011  :  06:27
New start as old topic was getting too big. Here's the LINK for the original topic.

Sheds are centres of honest endeavour and sanity, rare things these days. Please join in and tell us what you are doing in your shed. All are welcome!

[By the way, if I occasionally seem to be stating the  bleeding obvious, it's because I'm aware of the fact that not everybody has the same experience so please forgive me.]


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 06:39


Close of play. The cylinder blocks look as though someone loved them now. Next job is to get the steam chest faces dead square and the right distance apart. I nearly started on that but decided to spend the rest of the morning getting me milling cutters back into good nick. Time spent sharpening tools is never wasted. A nice straight edge!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 10:48
Stanley,
             Are the pipe and lighter there to illustrate size, or are you thinking of using them in your steam generation. LOL.


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pluggy
Geek


1164 Posts
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 20:00
It's his trademark Wink


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 07:16
Funnily enough two of my mates mailed me this morning saying that the pic was almost a self-portrait, it has all the elements in it. I just take the pics as they fall. Never re-arrange anything. The pipe and the pot of tea are always there, mind you, they do illustate the scale. I suppose for that reason they are also a trade mark.

 

This is the Clyde Puffer I have in mind, the 'Jennie'. She hit the rocks off Eigg in fog in 1954 and Mary and I tracked her remains down, jammed in a cave on the east coast of Eigg in 1984. One thing that strikes me is that to be authentic the engine shouldn't have a condenser as they exhausted direct up the funnel. This was why they were called 'puffers'.

 

I may have posted this pic before but it goes with the one below.

 

The top pic is a set of purpose-made holding dogs for the miller tables. Not cheap but they save so much time. And yes, if you have noticed the machine vise to the left, you're right. I have them ruuning out of my ears! That one has a swivel jaw that is shaped and is just the thing for holding funny shaped pieces or round stock. The little beast sat on top of it is a ball-turning attachment I made. A lovely little tool that doesn't play out often but is just the job when you need it. The ball on the end of the lever was made using it. The boring pic of the wooden blocks with the bolts in is anorther little tip. All my holdong down dogs and the rotary tables have 3/8" Whitworth threads. These Allen headed HT bolts are 3/8" as well and having these sets saves so much time when you need a bolt. It's amazing how much time can be wasted seeking out a matching set of bolts when you need them. Far easier to just reach up onto the shelf and pull exactly the right ones out.

 

Back to the cylinders. I only know one way of finding the exact centres of the bores, make a paper template marked with the plugs and with centres marked through the 3/8" hole in the centre. You can than find the CL of the bores. mark the castings and use this line to square the valve faces.



Lots of different ways to proceed but I chose to do a partial cut on the HM with a saw as I know it wll be square to the block. The resulting face is then used with a piece of ground stock to get a true alignment in the machine vise on the VM bed.

 

Here's the result, a good datum point for setting up in the vise.

 

This a dodgy set up if anything is wanting in your VM. You have to trust it to remain rigid when you're working near the limit. The Taiwan engineers who made my economy VM were good men. They put plenty of metal in the right places and given a bit of care, this is perfectly safe. It would be a different story altogether if there was any give in the pillar.

 

Close of play. All the valve faces cut in the right place and dead square to each other. They will need some finish to get a perfect seal but that can wait till the ports have been milled.

 

I put all the castings together to give an idea of the finished size and the bits that have to be made yet. I have no castings for the lids but that's no bother I can soon make them. It's always a bit of a surprise when you see all the bits together, bigger than you thought! Nice though, you can see we are getting there!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 07:23
PS. What a good idea it was to re-sharpen the milling cutters the day before and why didn't Johnny cast a boss on the back of the lids to make it easier to hold them in the chuck?  I can turn them OK but will have to be as clever as he was! If you're ever getting castings made always bear in mind that it's handy to have a boss you can turn up and used for holding in the chuck. Makes things a lot easier for amateurs like me.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 09:59


Yesterday started well.  Some nice simple turning using Johhny's old 7 1/2" Belco chuck (he did buy good tackle!) and the biggest carbide tipped round nose that would fit in the toolholder. Away we went to make a bit of muck! However, due to the gross incompetence of the workforce we soon ran into trouble. As I got closer to the size I wanted it became obvious that something was wrong. Because the casting had a domed top I couldn't get a register on the PCD I want withoutturning too much off and finishing up short of thickness. The patterns I thought were for the engine must have been for another. A rethink was needed and the workforce was taken to task! The floggings will continue until morale and performance is improved. A quick root through the treasure box revealed some spare castings I had made for a larger cylinder which meant making more muck but would turn down to the size I need. They have bosses on as well! Moral of this story is that when you are getting small items cast, always get a few spares, they always come in handy!

 

A fresh start. Get a good face on the backside so that you can get a good location in the chuck and then start making muck. Once I have a true boss we can have a change. Notice the spot of yellow paint on the jaw. This is so that if you have to take the piece out of the chuck you can give it a matching spot of paint and so when you remount it you can get it into the right place to preserve the centre. One other little tip as well, not many people know that if a chuck hasmore than one socket for the chuck key the No. 1 socket is the master socket. This is the one that is used to make final adjustments to the jaws at the factory. The theory is that this is the socket you should use for the initial tightening, if you need a better nip, use the others to make sure. Doesn't make much difference if you forget but we need all the help we can get!

 

Johnny always said that you needed at least two lathes and plenty of chucks. The advantage of multiple chucks is that if you need to break off in the middle of the job to do something else you can just screw the chuck off and put another one on leaving the job still perfectly centered in the other chuck. Remember that there is no such thing as a dead accurate self-centering chuck, the most accurate one you have is the independent four-jaw. So, it gave me great pleasure to move over to Johnny's big 1956 OT lathe because this saved a chuck change on the Harrison. This lathe is a 19th century design, hopelessly old-fashioned these days but a delight to use. Everything is built properly and the handles fall to hand. The register on the cross feed is big enough to put a tenth of a thou cut on if you feel like it. No power feed to the crosslide but I have the gearing set up to give me a slow longitudinal feed.  Notice the chuck, another defunct maker. It's a Taylor chuck and is a unique design. The jaws run in inclined guides and the effect is that as you tighten the chuck the jaws draw the workpiece into the body. Many old turners considered them the best three jaw SC ever made and I'm lucky in that I have both sets of jaws for it. So, using the boss, both lids get internal faces cut complete with a 1/16" register to fit into the bore and locate the lid whan it's on the cylinder. Another advantage not realised today is that the belt drive is far smoother than a gear box and you can get a much better finish. It also means that it is incrediby quiet, all you can hear is the hum of the old Horace Green motor and the sound of the cut. (I can see Johnny nodding in agreement!)

 

Both lids fitted with good registers, centre popped for the recess for the piston rod nut and the lubricators I am going to put on the lids to encourage people to pop some oil in occasionally. Both numbered to match the blocks. 


Stanley Challenger Graham




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pluggy
Geek


1164 Posts
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 16:05
"One thing that strikes me is that to be authentic the engine shouldn't have a condenser as they exhausted direct up the funnel."

Plumbing new depths in inefficiency and lost feed water.......   Laughing


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Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 04/09/2011 : 03:46
Make smoke.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 04/09/2011 : 04:43
Coal was cheap Pluggy and remember they were often carrying coal so economic performance could be massaged by opening the hold and pinching a bit!  I should have mentioned yesterday that there is a gear train that can be fitted to the apron to give a power cross-feed but I'd only install it if I was doing some big face plate work that needed a super finish.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 04/09/2011 : 04:51


Not a lot to show for time in the nshed yesterday. Finishing touches to LP lids and first registry cuts to the HPs. Ready for marking for diameter and register in cylinder. I'll finish these and have a look at the bottom lids today. They are a bit more complicated......


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 04/09/2011 : 13:51
Stanley,
             What I find amazing is the variety of equipment that you have. It certainly is impressive.
You probably have more than a conventional ship carries.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 07:24
I suspect you're right Robert. At times I wondered whether I was just a collector but I think I've made enough stuff to dispel that one. Another activity of mine is that when I hit a complex problem I tend to make the accessorie that is the solution so that I don't have it again. The ball-turning attachment is a case in point, I needed a perfect ball so I made the tool that makes them. Another element is that I inherited a lot of useful stuff from Newton and Johnny and spent many hours adapting them to use on my machines. I have things like dividing heads and special milling table attachments for gear-cutting on the VM and worm gear making on the HM. Refurbing Johnny's OT lathes got me into an entirely different ball game, you should see the tackle I have for them! Such a pity to see good stuff going to waste and so satisfying to reach onto the shelf for the perfect answer. I suppose I'm just a Shed Nit at heart!



Lids all finished to the stage where they are ready for final fitting so we moved on to the other castings. First ones were the steam chests. Object was to get two faces on them at the right thickness, just a shade over 3/4" No messing about, just grab them firmly any way you can, big carbide tool, get under the skin and face both sides. If you read the old engineering books you'll find all sorts of set-ups for different jobs but I favour the Newton approach based on years of experience making muck the quickest and easiest way. These chests can be grabbed by putting over the head of the outside jaws and winding them out till they grab. Belt the chest with the nig rubber hammer as you yighten and it will find its place. Than take the cut. Whem you reverse it it will sit on the clean face and the next cut will be dead parallel. If the casting is rough, grind or faile a reasonable face for the first fixing. Once you have two clean opposing parallel faces the two jaw will hold it anyway you want. If you haven't got one, the 4 jaw independent will do the same job but slower setting up. Remember that centres don't matter, all you are after is flat faces.



Close of play. All lids ready for final fitting. Three steam chests have two clean faces, one more for shaving. Next job is to get all the faces of the SCs ready for final fitting.  I shall make them the right size to match the edges of the cylinder block valve faces but will not do any more milling on the block. All I want them to do is be tidy so they will be individually fitted and numbered. 


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 07:03


Following on from Robert's comment, here are two useful little milling fixtures that Johnny made. I adapted them for my tackle. The one on the left is a tangential dividing head he made for gear-cutting. TD is a way of dividing which makes it possible to put an infinite number of holes on a pitch circle or cut an infinite number of gear teeth on a wheel. I set it up to use on the VM when I was making the missing gears for the 1927 lathe. The screwed nose takes the chucks from the Harrison Lathe for workholding.  It is precise, very rigid and the only problem I have is that I have to read up tangential dividing every time I use it to remind myself what to do! (No shame, nobody can remember everything!)

The one on the right is a fixture for holding a blank gear rigidly but allowing it to rotate freely while being cut with a hob to make a worm gear. I have a milling chuck that fits the drive on the Harrison HM and so I can mount the hob directly on the spindle. Once set up it's dead easy to use. I made the missing 180 tooth worm wheel for the Tangential Dividing gear on the 1927 lathe with this little beastie. All right, a lot of careful work making the fixtures but when you come to do the job again all you have to do is reach up onto the shelf. Notice that the motive for making these fixtures was to solve a problem, not simply for the experience of making them.

 

I started yesterday by finishing the register faces on the steam chests. Than I addressed the bottom lids which are awkward little beasties because of the projactions on them. After a few tries I found that the Taylor chuck on Johnny's big OT lathe could grab them while allowing clearance for the cutter to get into them. So, both LP lids faced bothe sides and the register cut for the bore. A centre pop put in on the internal face so that when I come to drilling for the rod etc I have a true centre in relation to the register. Remember that the faces I am gripping are not machined but as cast so there is no guarantee I can grab them again on the same centre.

 

By noon I had both LP lids faced both sides, registered and numbered. I found I could get the initial face on the side with the projecting faces by using the Taylor chuck but was struggling to find a way of holding them so I could cut the face and the register for the bore. One thing to notice is that due to the projections I can't turn the face of the casting. No problem, I shall simply leave it as cast. Machining it makes no difference to the fitting of the engine and I like a good 'as-cast' finish, it's honest. 

 

While I was making my tea I had a thought.....  Remember what Johnny said about you can't have too many chucks? I remembered the small scroll chuck that belongs to the big OT lathe, I popped it on the nose and found it held the HP lids perfectly for facing and registering. This is the first job this morning. Have a close look at the chuck and you'll see it has a gear on the chuck back. Now what could that be for?

 


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 07:39


Here's the answer to the problem.  Originally there were two identical scroll chucks but one is missing. One of these days I'll adress this and fit two identical chucks up. I'm sure you will have noticed that the spindle of the back gear has a projection which is another nose for fixing a chuck. If fitted, the drive is transmitted by the central gear and both chucks revolve in unison. But why?

 

Here's the answer, Johnny's Medallion Machine. This was rusted to hell when I found it with the lathe and I spent quite a lot of time restoring it to pristine condidtion. Luckily it was all there. It's a copying machine for cameos or medallions and works best with ivory or similar materials but can be used with soft brass. You can see the tool mounts on the front. The one nearest the camera is a follower, the far one is a cutter. The original is fitted in the driven chuck and the copy blank in the far chuck. As the cutters are traversed the follower transmits the setting to the cutter and you have a copy. There is provision for a power feed to the traverse from the overhead drive gear. Can you see why I admire Johnny so much? He was a master of his craft. Notice also that the headgear of the lathe has tangential dividing gear incorporated in it, Johnny fitted this as an accessory on his small 1927 lathe (That's what I made the worm wheel for) but by 1952 when he was building this one he had refined his ideas. This is why this lathe is probably one of the most complete OT lathes in the world, no exaggeration, that's why it's so important and why I have spent so much time getting it up and running again. Apart from that it's a joy to use. I think Johnny looks over my shoulder occasionally and nods approval. I'm not into ghosts but I think of him often when I am following him.

Right! Enough diversion! Off for a rainy walk and then back into the shed!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Gugger
Regular Member


61 Posts
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 20:31
Stanley,
Iam looking over your shoulders too. Seeing all your equipment again I am getting jealous.
Walter


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