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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted -  27/05/2009  :  18:34
Following one of the Google links at the bottom of the homepage took me to this site which may be of interest to anyone researching this area.

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~calderdalecompanion/index.html



Ian
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Sue
Senior Member


4201 Posts
Posted - 27/05/2009 : 23:20
Thanks Ian. I have been on this site many times and found nothing of interest but tonight I found the following

Extract from

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~calderdalecompanion/index.html


'Widdop's: George Widdop & Company

Cotton spinners at Hudson's Mill, Heptonstall. Partners included George Widdop William Sutcliffe and Michael Heaton. The partnership was dissolved in 1799 '

This is of great interest to me as I have been gathering evidence that the father of John Widdup born circa 1765, who married martha edmundson in 1785 in Rochdale  ( and moved to barlick before 1792) was descended froma marriage betweena widdup and a sutcliffe probably in the Heptostall area. This item links the two families in the right era. Am I on to something I wonder

 Sue



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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 28/05/2009 : 07:14
Interesting entry Sue. One thing that has always seemed obvious about the early days of spinning cotton using the Arkwright water frame after the patents were overthrown in the 1780s is that there was a stampede to start up small water spinning mills and due to the consequences of the Bubble Act these were very often partnerships, many of which sank without trace. There must have been thousands of small failures like this which could be for personal reasons, commercial disputes and bad management in an entirely new industry. Heptonstall, in the middle of the woolen district doesn't look like a good place to start such an enterprise. What interests me is why Widdop ranslated to Barlick. Were there already Widdops in Barlick?

One interesting sideline in this research is that Quaker concerns seem to have done better and for many years this was ascribed entirely to the Quaker ethics of cooperation and peaceful, rational debate. There is also the small matter of the Quakers being better at the administration and paperwork and it is the survival of these documents that gives the perhaps mistaken impression that they were predominant in the field of new industries. 


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Gloria
Senior Member


3581 Posts
Posted - 28/05/2009 : 10:23
Thanks Ian, an interesting site, I will spend some time on it.


I'd be dangerous with a brain!!!!!
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Sue
Senior Member


4201 Posts
Posted - 28/05/2009 : 13:18
No Stanley, no Widdops in Barlick prior to my relative arriving. You have asked the same question that so many of John Widdup's dsecendants have asked However  I have a theory I think Martha Edmundson was born in the Barlick area. I think I put an article on here about it. I'll check

 Sue


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Sue
Senior Member


4201 Posts
Posted - 28/05/2009 : 13:30
Here it is dated 2005, but I have added some amendments
 

Subject: Who was Martha Edmundson of Rochdale 1785
Topic author: Sue
Posted on: 07/03/200523:13:00
Message:


Proposed lineage of Martha Edmundson, wife of John Widdup, married St Chads Rochdale 1785

Having searched the St Chads indexes and transcripts for Edmondsons/Edmundsons pre 1800, I can find NO reference to the name before 1785. These are the entries that I have found

 4 references to marriages
1. John Widdup + Martha Edmundson , witness Margaret Edmundson 25th Oct 1785
2. Margaret Edmundson + James Fitton, witness John Fitton 8th September 1788
3. Ann Edmundson + Jonathan Grindrod 13th January 1795
4. Robert Crossley + Jane Wilson, witness Thomas Edmundson 15th May 1792
 No baptisms ( including any of the above)
 No burials
I can find no trace of a marriage or burial of Thomas up to 1803, search to be continued
Martha and John were living in Barnoldswick by 1791.

I have searched the IGI for Martha Edmundson born circa 1760. I found two possibilities, one was the daughter of a Joseph and Mary Clough who married in Thornton in Craven in 1764. They had several children, all baptised at The Inghamite Chapel in Salterforth. It is interesting to note that in Barnoldswick/ Salterforth, many of Martha and John Widdups descendants were baptised at this same chapel

I referred to the transcripts of the chapel records and found the following

Name/ Parents /Baptism date /Burial date
Robert /Joseph and Mary /29/10/1780 /
Margaret /Joseph and Mary/ 20/4/1766 /
Marthay /Joseph and Mary /14/6/1767 /
Ann/ born 20/6/1773/ Joseph and Mary /1781
William /Joseph and Mary /21/7/1782 /
Joseph /Joseph and Mary /19/9/1784 /this was the last entry for this family, they do not appear again until the deaths of Mary and Joseph
William Joseph and Mary of Salt 25/6/1769 1772
Clough : this name was the main factor linking to the precise parents Joseph and Mary of salt 26/3/1775
Mary /Joseph and Mary of Salt /22/12/1776
Lydia /Joseph and Mary of Salt. /27.1/1778 /1800 aged 22
Mary /wife of Joseph /20/7/1803
Joseph/ 6/2/1808

Further research showed marriages for Clough and Joseph in the local area. It is interesting to note that there is no Thomas in this list , but there is a Margaret, Ann and Martha. If these are the same Ann, Margaret and Martha at St Chads they would have been 22, 22,18 respectively at the time of their marriages. Martha appears to have died before the 1841 census, the chapel records show a burial on 7/9/1840 but no age is stated. ( Perhaps a death certificate is needed here!)

If we consider the names of John and Martha’s children. These are in order
1. William; is he named after Martha’s dead brother ( post script here, dated May 2009. I have now reason to believe John's father was William and he is the one who married a Sarah Sutcliffe)
2. John: is he named after John or John’s father?
3. Mary: is she named after Martha’s mother or sister
4. Edmondson: Martha’s maiden name
5. Thomas: Martha’s uncle
6. James (a relative of John’s I think. Most of the Rochdale Widdups include a James)
7. Robert : named after Martha’s brother OR even Johns relative ( there are some in Rochdale)
8. Joseph: after Martha’s father
9. Sarah ( possibly after John’s mother, there are Sarah Widdups in Rochdale)  post script May 2009 named after John's mother

Turning my mind back to Thomas , who could he be. The IGI shows a Thomas Edmondson , with a father Joseph, christened in Barnoldswick in 1744. I also found a Joseph Edmondson with a father Joseph christened in Barnoldswick in 1745. Were these two brothers ( More research need to confirm this)

Finally
 I suggest that Martha originated from Salterforth. She came to Rochdale with her uncle and two sisters. Why? I don’t know. She returned to Barnoldswick before 1792. I have no idea at this stage of the origins of John Widdup.
 I have found a death of a William Edmundson , infant son of Ellen Edmundson at Packer Meadows, Rochdale on 13/7/1839 (where Martha and John lived in 1786), but no indication of who Ellen was
 To date I have not found an Edmundson in Rochdale in the 1841 census. postscript The present edmundson families in Rochdale came from near Morcombe, as researched by a close friend who is an Edmundson

Sue



A follow up reply

Well BJ I am determined to solve this one, every Widdup tree seems to stop at Martha and John, but if it actaullay starts in Barlick there are a lot of Edmondsons to go at. I think the Widdups started at Widdop. I have tracked most of the Rochdale ones to one family, Paul and Susan circa 1720. I think John is a son of one of these families as the names are all the right ones, you know how they follow patterns.





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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 29/05/2009 : 06:57
Interesting Sue. Like jewish migration to America, there was almost always an equivalent of the Landsman principle, a connection usually composed of common place of birth and family links. Coulod of course be a connection down to Heaton or Sutcliffe.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Sue
Senior Member


4201 Posts
Posted - 29/05/2009 : 08:54
One of the early children was a Sutcliffe and this is the only connection I have found
 Sue


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