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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  11/01/2009  :  06:04
New Year, new topic. If you want to see the old one do a forum search for same title but 2008.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 09:46
It's hard to take in these things...it has happened so quickly..but perhaps only because we have had our head very firmly in the sand for many years!

Bodger, you have got me all wrong!

I have been a strong advocate for Mothers being back in the home, and like Mels mum i only worked school hours when the finances demanded it.

if anyone thinks that running a home and bringing up children isn't a full time job they are delusioned...I suspect the nations health has taken a down turn re house maintaining, and it is obvious what having "latchkey" children has done to society as a whole, producing ferrel youngsters who get into trouble and don't know how to direct themselves. In fact I would go so far as to pay women to stay at home and look after their children.

It's so sad to think that we don't seem to have the common sense that  animals and even insects have regarding caring for the next generation and ensuring the species continues and thrives!  The biggest single problem re the economy and the state of our society is abregation of responsibility, which is linked with the blame culture..so nothing is ever our fault or our responsibility...Well the chickens have cetainly come home to roost so it's time we grew up and sorted out the mess we've made.

Edited by - belle on 16/01/2009 09:48:15 AM


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 09:57
By gum, there is a lot to mull over in these recent posts. I agree fully with Bodge, Maz, Mel & Stanley (sounds like a pop group) about mothers etc. No matter what we feel about the rights and wrongs of mothers going to work, the fact is that most mothers didn't and now, I suppose, most mothers do - it has changed and we are seeing the results and not happy with them. Yes, it was my mum who did the discipline bit too. Of course, mots homes had grannies as well as mothers and that's mostly gone too. The grannies were a major force in perpetuating common sense and nous (spelling?) from generation to generation. I know a scientist who measures history in units called "grandads", each being equivalent to 50 years, because these represent the jumps in transfer of knowledge and culture.

That comment about the rise in house prices reminded me of something else. All the trouble we are in now with the "credit crunch" ought to be called the "value bubble". We have been living for 10-15 years in a rapidly expanding bubble of infalted values, based solely on excess debt. It's not just house prices, just about everything has been falsely over-valued due to a flood of lending. Now we are sliding back to a more realistic world and it's hurting. Take the car components manufacturers. Yes, it's a shame when many will go bust and others will sack workers, but the fact is those businesses have got too big by relying on consumer debt used to buy new cars. It's all been artificial, fairyland.

Then Tripps' list of today's big issues. Let me add a few comments.
Bank of America messed up - see this from the BBC web site: "Its problems intensified when it decided to take over Merrill Lynch, another giant of the US banking industry that fell victim to the global credit crunch. Bank of America underestimated the levels of debt it was taking on as a result of the deal. `It's a big question for Bank of America's management. They just went into an acquisition and now need aid. It looks like another bad deal with poor due diligence,' said Peter Hahn of The Cass Business School."

Anglo Irish Bank - more messing up....BBC: "Anglo Irish recently lost top executives over a secret loans fiasco, which the government described as "unacceptable practices" which had played a part in the nationalisation. The bank's chairman, Sean Fitzpatrick, resigned in December after a 87m euros loan controversy where he admitted he had transferred millions of euros out of the Dublin-based bank's accounts. Chief executive David Drumm announced his resignation shortly afterwards."

Cars - we are in a real fix here. What do we do for the best? To fight the credit crunch they say open up debt lines so that people can buy new cars ans stimulate the motor industry and keep jobs. But that does two bad things. First, it promotes debt again - back to the bubble (Godron's boom & bust). Second, it may increase global warming. I've heard the argument about net carbon reduction but I'm not sure it really is true - there was a motor industry man on the radio the other day who said the best thing for the environment was for us to hold onto our old cars for longer (yes, an industry man!). Perhaps we should be holding onto them at the moment and boosting the building of eco-friendly cars to replace them - no new cars other than eco-cars.

Finally (yes I really am going to stop!), anyone interested in the Severn Barrage:
11:00 Friday 16th Jan, Radio 4
Time and Tide: The Severn Barrage Project
Miriam O'Reilly explores the viability of the Severn barrage project, potentially the biggest, most expensive and most controversial source of sustainable energy in the UK.

Edited by - Tizer on 16/01/2009 10:00:03


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 10:05
The new runway for Heathrow grabbed my attention.
Why are we paying increased Car Tax to "Save the Environment" whilst we are in the process of increasing Air Transport   ???? somethings don't seem to add up !!!!!!!.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Julie in Norfolk
Senior Member


1632 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 11:38
Just think of it, we can't possibly do without expanding the biggest airport in the world, what with having Standstead, Gatwick and City airport so far away, oh and don't forget Luton.


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Mark with a pencil.
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handlamp
Senior Member


1100 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 14:11
Pleased to see a lot of common sense being expounded on One Guy on this subject in the last two days. 


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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 17:02
Marilyn, I have never understood the "sexual" revolution!  I don't think that things have changed that much...except....things are more out in the open.  I think that the "bra burners" are as much responsible for the breakdown/lack of long term relationships as anything.  The role of women has changed, women are more in control in business (they were always in control in the home?), women have more power in the world, the role of men has been diminished to the point that there is confusion in relationships.  Commitment is now a four letter word and is not used in mixed company.


HERB


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Julie in Norfolk
Senior Member


1632 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 17:20
Goodbye Sir John Mortimer. I had the privelidge of having lunch with him in 1974 and he left a lasting impression on me that only grew with time. A rare and generous man if ever there was one. I am genuinely sorry that he is no longer with us.


Measure with a micrometer.
Mark with a pencil.
Cut with an axe. Go to Top of Page
Bodger
Regular Member


892 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 18:53
Slight change of topic generated by the mention of grandparents, maybe i'm wrong but i cannot recall oldfolks nursing homes 60 years ago, the family looked after them, they were not booted into a semi regimental home, ie they coud get up and go to bed when they felt like it, not sure of costs but i guess £4/500 p /week, then the children pay for child minders, i seem to recall grandparents were'nt bad at that, and they were cheap, a packet of fags or a bottle of beer or two, and the kids were kept under control, i suppose i agreeing with Belle, that nature looks after it's families better than us "intelligent" humans. B-gger it, i'm going for a pint of Guinness


"You can only make as well as you can measure"
                           Joseph Whitworth
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Another
Traycle Mine Overseer


6250 Posts
Posted - 16/01/2009 : 19:13
Bodge, care homes for the elderly and infirm were around prior to 1948 and were usually set up asworkhouses funded under the Poor Law - many of our older hospitals developed from workhouses.After that they were usually refered to as welfare homes provided under the National Assistance Act.

I know of three that operated in Burnley from 1948 and two units that were part of the former workhouse at Burnley General Hospital that continued to operate untikl 1976. Thye now house the dermatology and CAMHS services. Nolic


" I'm a self made man who worships his creator" Go to Top of Page
Bodger
Regular Member


892 Posts
Posted - 17/01/2009 : 02:20
Another, i am not saying care homes did'nt exist, per se, but my paternal & maternal grand parents were  looked after by their families, ok i'm 71 , but i can assure you, me or my wife will not be in a "home",, as the song goes, "we are family", our youngest daughter and partner are currently building their house, including space for the grannies, that we do not need, we have our own house, paid for, because i worked, and don't tell me i was lucky, i was sacked several times for not behaving as a a senior executive should, i trained as an engineer, i ran a bar, bought a shop, spent 45 years involved in the platics industry, in 2000 i was made redunant at the age oge of 63, was i too old at that age,?, no, i got a job as an extra on film production, this i still do, If you WANT to work, you will, but if you have no personal respect you will live of hand outs  paid for by the workers, 80/90 % of taxes are paid by the working person, not the big companies who can employ a consultant to minimize their payments, PAYE is deducted at source, and it's hard to find a consultant who can beat that system


"You can only make as well as you can measure"
                           Joseph Whitworth
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HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 17/01/2009 : 05:14
Bodge, I spent 4 days (and sleepless nights) with my 95 year old mother over xmas, I am 68,  I could not have her live with me, it is a 24x7 JOB.  She is not yet in a full care home but it is coming, she is in a seniors "residence".  We cannot let her near a stove(cooker), let her walk by herself...she will walk for 3-4 hours...but will not find her way back to the "nest".  For me it was heart breaking to see the changes in her over just the last couple of months.  It is a full time job just to be around her now, and she takes care of herself fairly well.  I watched a couple of programmes on TV this past few days, dealing with the mind and Alzhiemers (mother is not there) and the effect on their loved ones.  It is Sad, one of the subjects was in the UK, his wife was awarded the OBE.  Caring for the elderly was different in the past, my grandmother died at 70 and my mother took care of her to that point.  But now when people are living longer it becomes harder for elderly family to care for the paternal/maternal heads.


HERB


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 17/01/2009 : 05:44
Godron's mantra of 'global crisis' has always been true. The lie is the way he uses it as an explanation of how we got to this position. The'It wasn't me guv' defence.  Go back to what I said weeks ago, if you want the main factor go back to Friedman, rabid monetarism and de-regulation 30 years ago. Joe public was failed by politicians who thought they had found the Holy Grail of funding and allowed greedy bankers to have their head. Remember that 18 months ago 'experts' were talking about 'the new economics', they were right in a way, trouble was that though new, it was fundamentally flawed and the people who said so were ignored.

10,000 Honda cars parked outside at Southampton.  I heard the report on Today yesterday. Any one fancy hiring a bulk carrier for the day for a sale round the Isle of Wight?

The bad news yet is that in terms of the effect at street level you ain't seen nothing yet. 14 months ago I forecast this happening and advised everyone to batten the hatches down. (Someone on Today has just heard me and said the same thing. 'You ain't seen nothing yet.')

Notice that the seed is being planted for ditching Trident. This hasn't happened by accident. These people don't come out of retirement of their own volition, they are primed by powerful interest groups. Did you see Portaloo arguing that there is no logic in building it?  How long will it be before we see the stats telling us we are out of recession? How about 2012? My message is still the same, it's going to be rough, we haven't seen the worst so pull your horns in.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
marilyn
VIP Member


5007 Posts
Posted - 17/01/2009 : 06:37
Oh Lord...I couldn't live with MY Mother either! (think I would be speaking for Cathy there too)....

Herb...the sexual revolution really began with the introduction of 'the pill'. It gave every woman the power to determine and time her own fertility. We were no longer slaves to our own bodies...worn down by constant childbearing.
As far as today's 'sexual freedom' is concerned, I find that young people don't tend to develop that deeper level of caring (and indeed, love) before they share their bodies. I think it would be difficult to start a sexual relationship and then have to backtrack somehow to find out what our partner is really about, their likes and dislikes, their history, their values and moral....heavens...even what their favourite colour is! I just don't think you CAN successfully do things back to front like that. It must leave you with a string of disastrous relationships behind you and a great deal of regret.


get your people to phone my people and we will do lunch...MAZ Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 17/01/2009 : 13:04
Papa, Alpha, Kilo, Wun, Fiver. Or, PAK 15. How about that for an inflamatory car reg, No. In fact it used to adorn a 1933 MG Magnette sports car that I bought and restored in the late 50s. In the days when each major town and city had its own registration letters, ie, RN was Preston, HG Burnley, FV Blackpool etc. It was probably accidental that AK belonged to Bradford. It ia perhaps fortuitous that I no longer own the car or I may have been in reciept of a FATWA. I make no excuses for any lack of Political Correctness on my behalf and my use of the term IC4s is a compromise for the benefit of the more sensitive elements of our extended community. I have no doubt that the majority of IC4s just want to be left alone to live in peace amongst us, the host nation, but a deal more flexibility is required, A less chauvinistic approach towards women, theirs and ours would be a start. I followed up on the Christmas Poem by a Marine on t'net and sadly discovered that it opened up a veritable plethora of sites linked to those who are clearly unhappy by what is happening in this grand old country of ours. As is to be expected, a percentage of these were from the ranks of our own brand of extremeists but nevertheless a good many valid points were raised, I have stated elsewhere on OGFB that I have visited Pakistan and other similar religion based countries, and believe me, if you do not show respect for their way of life, you can end up in very deep foo foo. Is it not strange then that it is quite acceptable to have a date with a local IC4 girl in Karachi but not advisable in Nelson, here of course an IC4 Male can pursue whoever he wishes. I will leave this for a while now as I have food to prepare, regards to all of you and a Happy New Year.


thomo Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 18/01/2009 : 14:25
Thomo, dare I ask what colour the MG car was? No, perhaps I'd better not in case it was black.

Heard Angela Knight (of the Bankers' Association) on the radio this morning, still spinning the same old story about the credit crunch of "It all started in America". She, the bankers and Godron like this story because they can argue it is true (the visible collapse began in America) but the real story is that it began with the unlimited, unsecured lending in many countries in the last 20 years. It was all a big house of cards but the first card to fall was the American one.


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