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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  11/01/2009  :  06:04
New Year, new topic. If you want to see the old one do a forum search for same title but 2008.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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handlamp
Senior Member


1100 Posts
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 14:45
A very wise post, Stanley. As you say, protecting employment in your own country should be the first priority for politicians. Unfortunately in their efforts to appear `Good Europeans' they protect their gravy train but neglect to envisage what the legistration can mean to their own citizens. As with the encouragement of wholesale immigration their, so called efforts, finish up attracting people to the BNP      


TedGo to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 15:06
A couple of interestiing comments from The Times weekend issue in discussions about the strikes....

"It's the bankers that got us into this mess, not the unions"
....and...
"The big finance people around the world repatriated their capital and thought only of their own pockets so why shouldn't the men of Lindsey?"


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 16:49
Tizer our construction industry has a habit of going slow and then wanting double/treble time to complete. The employer has no option but to pay because of the penalty built into the contract. Google Terminal 5 or The New Wembley for a couple of instances of late strikes.
 I contracted for many many years I also lived on a barge and a floating converted offshore drilling rig. In the desert we used to live in porta cabins it goes with the job. The worst conditions was a bed & breakfast in King's Lynn   I only stayed 1 night.
The Freedom of Labour movement is a Right that should be defended and not hi jacked by some left wing numpty union.
I never ever thought I would agree with Mandy but I do on this one.
When they have a down turn in Oz should they send everyone back here ??? I think the answer is No



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 17:10
The genesis of this problem is that the contract was allowed to specify thet the contractors provided their own labour. That's the root of it. Who allowed that contract to be signed with that power in it?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 20:15
I don't think I would like to bid on a contract with an unknown workforce. Who would if another longer contract came along leg it  !!!!!.
The companies I worked for ICL,  CC,  NEI,  RR,  ABB, and finaly  Alstom would insist on our own Supervision as a Minimum from Charge Hand up, and we would not look at the contract without that clause.

Now just looking at those abbreviations International Combustion Limited became Clarke Chapman who became Northern Engineering Industries,then Rolls Royce (when they got into Power Plants) then the Swiss company Asea Brown Boveri. Finaly the French Company Alstom. No wonder we can't build Power Plants in the UK.

Edited by - frankwilk on 02/02/2009 20:17:46



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 20:26
One thing you get on OGFB is debate and different perspectives - thanks to all of you!


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 08:52
And we don't tend to fall out to much, which on a forum is so very very important.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 09:40
I was reminded yesterday of why someone may want to use workers...from whatever country... who do what it says on the tin..ie work.

i was meant to have someone call in to do an estimate for some work for us at about 11a.m ..had a call at 8.45 a.m saying they were cancelling the appointment as they didn't think they could reach me...they were three miles away..all the roads were gritted and the traffic was moving normally..when i pointed this out, they said it was because they were "up hill" ..then they went on to ask what it was we wanted doing...even though I had already told them twice in a previous call. i rang them back after speaking to D ...he was in Leeds by this time (despite the radio saying this was the worst hit area) doing his first job,  i asked them why they had cancelled an 11 oclock job so early...they were confused..seems they had mixed me up with another customer, but they weren't prepared to admit it, or try and come out...shame really, the other customer had wanted a quick job doing...we were needing work running into thousands of pounds..but i decided i would rather give the work to some one who wanted it...just to get it into perspective, by the time he came home at 6 D had been to Leeds, Pately Bridge, and Richmond ( alot more "up hill" than where this firm were!)..it did get a bit tight at one point as the A66 was closed, but when he could go no further he walked the last three quarter of a mile to his customer..now ther's a man who knows how to put his customers first.


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 10:00
"..now there's a man who knows how to put his customers first. "

And he probably managed all that because you look after him so well, Belle!

My relatives in Taunton asked several builders for quotes months ago for a house extension. Some came and looked but failed to quote, others didn't even bother coming to look. The only one to quote so far is the one we suggested who did our conservatory foundation and walls. The rellies' house is a standard modern family home on an estate - nothing odd or difficult and the extension should be a straightforward job. They already have full planning permission. And they are friendly folk and would be easy to work for. You'd think builders would be making sure they got every job they could find in the present situation. But obviously not. We've also had plumbers and electricians who don't bother to turn up - they are usally the younger ones (I don't particularly want to criticise young folk, but that's how it is). The old blokes who should be reitired by now always turn up - but then perhaps they need the money because they don't fall back on credit cards for everything.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 13:46
Listening to all the London-centric coverage of the snow on the news I am beginning to wonder if what we are looking at is more a product of population density than snow. No word from the people up on Bowes Moor!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 14:34
London has been an itch that is to big to scratch for a long time. I have noticed that the temperatures there are always a bit higher than the rest of UK. This must have something to do with all the hot air generated there. Their contribution to the environment seems to be to keep it lit up like the tenth floor of hell at all times. Of course it is an historic place and as such is important to our collective way of life but there are miriad other places that are deserving of equal recognition. In short it would appear that if London wants something it gets it, other places have to wait or do without. However, Snow is impartial, and will fall wherever it pleases. Strange is it not that two inches of the stuff in the capital has a far more malevolent effact than a foot any where else. "We have no snowploughs" came the cry, down the road at Heathrow they have 55 of said items, and anyway they are not very effective on small amounts of the white stuff. Someone on TV last night asked "how can we prevent this happening again" They could always rush a bill through parliament and ban it.


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 16:32
London is so big now it alters the weather locally, so it gets the weather it deserves!

The attitude to life and business these days requires that we have no slack in the systems - but it means any slight deviation from the norm then causes chaos. No doubt Stanley and others will tell us a mechanical analogy for the benefits of having slack in the system.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 06:21
You're right Tiz, they call it safety factor, built in redundancy or in my case worst case planning. It's expensive in the first instance but pays off in extreme circumstances. All Heathrow has to do is go to Montreal and ask them what they use. I've seen them working there and they have blowers, followed by blowers with brushes on them followed by the high tech equivalent of gritters. Leaves the runway like a front room carpet. A good comparison is Just in Time supply chains. Splendid and very economic until you throw the odd spanner in the works. There was a car factory that had to close because roadworks were hampering the flow of traffic.

A good analogy in terms of machinery is a mill engine installed for say 500hp and pushed until it developed 1000hp and lasted over 50 years before they reached the breaking point, usually forging flaws in a flywheel shaft. Plenty of examples of that. Victoria engine started life at 500hp and ended at 1500hp and was the most economical engine in the district. This was achieved by spending money upgrading when it was needed. The accountants would say that it was over-built in the first place but the point is that the basic design could accept the overload. Same principle applies to systems.

I was struck last night by a helicopter shot of a village 'cut-off by snow'. How come there were obvious clear black wheelmarks on the road?


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 11:19
Remember the old headline? "Fog in Channel - Continent cut off".

Another analogy for the need to have slack in a system is the movement of vehicles on a motorway. Once they are packed too closely, bang!...big traffic jam. I like the use of the word "interference" to decribe these sort of problems. You have a system with lots of"bodies" in them - whether sub-atomic particles or motor cars or people - and once they get packed beyond a certain level they begin to "interfere" with each other (don't take the word too literally - and stop giggling at the back there, Maz. Pay attention). Then the overall properties of the sytsem itself are altered and it takes on a different character. This is getting a bit philospoti...philophosi...complicated...


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 13:25
Rightly or wrongly, something like 25% (or more) of the GB population lives and works in London and the SE.  Well over 10% live in London.  It's where laws are made, where finance takes place (ho-ho!), where other major companies have their HQs, and where we are governed.  Given this, the region naturally dominates the news.

 
Personally, I'm all for dispersing this concentration of commerce and decision-making around the regions.  There's no reason why for example, we couldn't have 5,000 public servants from say Justice relocated to say the M65 corridor.  And as was mentioned in The Guardian many years ago, given that the Queen's favourite part of her realm is apparently the Forest of Bowland (no, I wasn't aware of that either) we could move her and her entourage etc there lock, stock and barrel!

 
Quick point on the snow.  It makes no sense to invest in the sort of planning and tools etc to deal with snow in this country along the lines that say the Canadians, or Russians or even the Swiss do.  Obvious point, but it seems to have been lost on the 'something must be done' brigade.  Are they saying that they'd happily see their taxes spent on a once in twenty year event?  Really?  What will they cut back?  After all, the British are not entirely known for wanting an increase in their contribution to the public purse and rant on all the time about wasted money.

 
One thing I'd do though.  I'd bring in a bye-law making it mandatory for all homeowners and tenants, as well as businesses, to clear the pavements in front of their buildings of snow and ice.  You just know though that all these moaners from the likes the Federation of Small Business, as well as the general public, would kick up a fuss again.  Think of the cost in lost time!  Think of the cost! 

 
Richard Broughton



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