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sandy
New Member
23 Posts
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 Posted -
05/01/2010
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23:05
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Hi there, im sandy
I have been interested in the local history in the Gruinard and Letterewe area for some time, and have just come across your site.
I have been trying to find out about a drove road in this area and have realised there is a link with the Birtwhistles of Skipton. I went to Great Close this summer and took photos of it and went to the Skipton reference library to look up the books refered to in the links below, when i had finished harvest work on a farm in Bucks i went to london and saw the item refered to at Kew ( c13 / 791 / 18 ) although it didnt give much new information it listed Indetures going back to the early 1700's and i think before, it mentions names of people, but as it didnt refer to my area i am afraid i didnt write any of them down.
I am aware of the 2 links below.
www.kirkbymalham.info/KMI/malhammoor/greatclose2.html
http://www.settledistrictu3a.org.uk/nchtjournal/Journals/2008/Birtwhistles.html
I am also interested in Meyrick Bankes of Winstanley 1811- 1881( Wigan ) as he was the estate owner here from 1835 - 1881 when his daughter Maria Ann took over till circa 1901, he was an owner of coal mines in his home area ( and others ).
I was wondering if these names rung any bells with anyone.
yours
sandy
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sandy
New Member
23 Posts
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 Posted - 05/01/2010 : 23:13
oops, sorry, forgot to say that Letterewe and Gruinard is in Wester Ross, in the Scottish Highlands.
sandy
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:22
Sandy, welcome to the site. Try a search for 'drove' in the drop down forum menu at the top of the page. Try packhorse as well, the two subjects are often inter-twined. There is a book by KJ Bonser; 'The Drovers' which contains a lot of valuable information. See also ARB Haldane: The Drove Roads of Scotland. There are smaller but good references in Tom Bradley's 'The Old Coaching Days In Yorkshire'. Arthur Raistrick; 'Old Yorkshire Dales'. David Hey; 'Packmen, Carriers and Packhorse Roads'.
When I was looking into this I found that there are numerous references and bits of information but very widely scattered. For instance, I found that the common location name 'Windy Harbour' denotes a place where drovers stayed for the night.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Another
Traycle Mine Overseer
6250 Posts
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Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:40
Hi Sandy. Welcome to One Guy. Sorry I can't help despite having a maternal grandfather and great grandfather from Gargrave who were both drovers. No doubt they would have been familiar with Great Close at Malham and would no doubt have come across relatives of some of those mentioned in your links. Nolic
" I'm a self made man who worships his creator"  |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:43
Sandy, my old neurones started to click together and I remembered a research paper I had done which I thought I'd already posted on OG. I had a search and found I had posted the series of articles that came out of the research (Transport in Barlick. You'll find them in the forum Staney's View) but I don't think I posted the research. This contains many of the references I mentioned above so I've posted it as a new topic in Stanley's View' and titled it 'Packhorse and Drover Research'. Get reading!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Tizer
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Posted - 06/01/2010 : 10:12
Hello Sandy and welcome to OGFB. Sorry I can't help but there are others who probably will be able to. Have a look around the site - there is much more than family history on here and you might find some other items of interest or just plain fun! It helps to have a sense of humour here too!
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sandy
New Member
23 Posts
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Posted - 06/01/2010 : 18:46
Thanks for the comments and welcome.
Thanks for the info Stanley, you have collected a vast amount of information on your area along with the sources connected with pack horses and their routes, it is not a thing i have come across up here, i have looked at the Posse Comitatus which was surveyed for this area in 1798 and there aren't many horses in this area.
I didnt realise that Great Close had been used for containing animals before Birtwhistle took over its use, although part of it would be marshy, where the ground rises slightly the soil is deep and seems loamy in bits, i suppose this may make it free draining to some extent, thus letting it recover from being heavily stocked.
I was not aware of the Act of 1706 that was mentioned, I will have a look at the Guildhall Library on my next visit at the end of this year ( perhaps there was evidence given, or perhaps not ! )
Thanks for listing some books that would be of interest, I came across Haldanes Drove Roads of Scotland ( I would go so far as to say it is a bible to those interested in droving ), i came across the name Arthur Raistrick when i was staying at Malham Youth Hostel but have not had a chance to see any of his books.
Thanks again
Sandy
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 07/01/2010 : 07:00
It's a pleasure Sandy, it's what we do on here, share information.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Mercury
Regular Member
233 Posts
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Posted - 07/01/2010 : 10:52
Hi Sandy, I was unaware of the meaning of 'windy harbour' in connection with drovers. BUT, you mentioned Meyrick Bankes - his Winstanley Colliery No. 4 here at Wigan later became known as Windy Arbour Colliery. Is this a pure coincidence I wonder?
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 07/01/2010 : 16:30
Now that's an interesting connection....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
sandy
New Member
23 Posts
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Posted - 07/01/2010 : 21:26
Hi Mercury
Thats not a name i've come across up here. Donald Anderson did a book about the Winstanley coalmines ( perhaps Orrell Coalfields ), I had a look through part of it when i was trying to find out about Meyrick Bankes and visited Winstanley ( however the gardener/caretaker wasnt impressed with me turning up ! as the house was derelict ).
The book is packed with information of mining in the area.
I believe that Meyrick Bankes had a coalmine ( perhaps) in Yorkshire, it was one with a well known Brass band, but i dont know which one.
Although i am not well up in his coalmines i am interested in anything to do with himself.
Yours
Sandy
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Mercury
Regular Member
233 Posts
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Posted - 07/01/2010 : 22:48
Hi Sandy, I'm afraid Winstanley Hall is decaying very rapidly. It's a crying shame really, but the council don't care, nobody wants (or is able) to put up the money to restore it, it is owned by a developer whose 'representative' you probably met!
Edited by - Mercury on 07/01/2010 10:49:24 PM
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sandy
New Member
23 Posts
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Posted - 07/01/2010 : 23:05
Hi Mercury
It was perhaps 10 years or more when i was there, I had been trying to find out where it was ( as at the time i was in Scotland ) , i contacted a few groups and organizations in the Wigan area, i ended up just turning up as i didnt know if it was still standing.
I also contacted Donald Anderson and visited him at his house, he said that the coal board workings had caused subsidence at one side of the house ( one of the gable ends were braced when i had a look round ), i was told not to take photos. I didnt have compact digital camera then as they were not available then.
I was told to write to the owner ( i think it was John Bankes, he was in Stroud ) he said in his reply that i could not visit for ' Insurance reasons ', the roan pipes were dated when the extentions were done, ie 1854 ect, there was a fine sculpture / fountain at the back of the house, but i didnt get a photo of it, it was line a chariot pulled by winged horses, it would have fitted on the back of a 7,5 ton lorry, a very impressive thing to have at the back of your house !.
yours
sandy
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wendyf
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Posted - 08/01/2010 : 08:24
Hi Sandy, I had never heard of Meyrick Bankes till I read your post, but I can never resist having a bit of a search.
The National Archives A2A website shows there are some documents relating to Meyrick Bankes ownership of the Cudworth estate in South Yorkshire.
Through Lancashire Libraries website there is access to the British Library's collection of 19th Century newspapers. There are many references to him , including one from the Liverpool Mercury of July 18th 1854 reporting on his successful experiment of growing a half acre of wheat at Letterewe!
I dont know if this link will work but there is a Pdf fom the Billinge History society with a section on Winstanley hall and the Bankes family. Click here
It looks as if Meyrick Bankes was loved and admired in Lancashire for his eccentricity and despised in Scotland, where I gather he was responsible for evictions and clearances.
Wendy
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 08/01/2010 : 15:10
The link worked for me Wendy...
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Mercury
Regular Member
233 Posts
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Posted - 08/01/2010 : 17:10
Hi Sandy, for fairly recent pics of Winstanley Hall, click www.explorations.2truth.com then click the heading 'Wigan's Other Interests' then click on 'Winstanley Hall (updated)'.
Edited by - Mercury on 08/01/2010 5:13:29 PM
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