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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  14/11/2010  :  06:26
NEW VERSION TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS WITH SLOW CONNECTIONS TO CONNECT.

Follw this LINK for last version.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 27/03/2011 : 13:16


quote:
catgate wrote:
So what is this money stuff? Where does it come from? How does one get it?


quote:
thomo wrote:
Simples Catty, go abroad and then come back as an asylum seeker or itinerant foreign chef. that should get you started, then the only way is up. In fact I can think of a few places that you could return from with all the necessary paperwork, for a small consideration of course.

No, I am not asking about the money that is "handed out" by the state, thomo. I am asking about the steps before that.


 

What is it, and from whence doeth it come?

 


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 00:10
Steady there Cat  , the logic of  "pieces of energy" might be a bit too much for some to take on board ...!

Have you read  "A Very English Deceit"  (the South Sea Bubble and the World's First  Great Financial Sandal)  by Malcolm Balen . ?

I'm only just starting it , and it's fascinating .....That John Law ,eh ! 


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 05:30
That touched a nerve, I don't think he likes me.

I never said anything about when the workhouses closed, fear of the workhouse persisted long afterwards. That's why hundreds of thousands of people took the trouble to go to London. Quite right about National Debt and in case it has slipped your mind I pointed that out years ago and what a bad job Godron was doing. I said the economy was in deep trouble then.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 07:35
Quite right about National Debt and in case it has slipped your mind I pointed that out years ago and what a bad job Godron was doing. I said the economy was in deep trouble then.

Then why do you not support the Present Goverments efforts to get us out of it. ??

You can't support 1000s of people paying good money (which they don't have ) to travel to London for a pointless exercise. Far better for them to stay at Home and conserve what they have.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
handlamp
Senior Member


1100 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 10:06
Stanley, as you say, in 1941, like many others,  I was doing a full man's job - Booking/Parcels clerk at Barlick on £35 a year, occasional chance of overtime at 9d an hour. No higher pay for performing higher duty work in those days. I would venture that we did a better job than most of today's workers on, so called, `performance pay' today and took a pride in our work. We'd be dewn the road if we didn't. 


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Bruff
Regular Member


479 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 10:15
Don't think anyone is dealing with the national debt, rather the deficit, and the structural aspect of the deficit specifically with all talk of growth being a part of the cyclical portion of the deficit.  The deficit being that which adds to the national debt each year.  We have had a national debt for 100s of years, and it would be ludicrous to imagine you could operate without one. 

 
Whenever a government talks about the nation's 'credit card', ignore them.  It's populist cant that bears no scrutiny.  Government has not, does not and will not operate like a household budget.

 
What is happening at the moment are policies to tackle the structural deficit (all the cuts to spending and tax changes), with additionally policies to stimulate growth and move into the next phase of the business cycle.  This will in time impact on the debt, but it's not going to vanish.  It is well worth going online and looking at the trends in deficits and debt over the years - the ONS has it all on their site.

 
If we're going to apportion blame then Mr Brown bears a hefty responsibility for the structural deficit.  But so too does Mr Cameron as he agreed to match Mr Brown's spending plans which ramped up the structural deficit.  And of course so do many voters who provided Mr Brown with a hefty mandate to ramp up spending on investment in infrastructure and services.  Mr Brown also I guess bears a level of responsibility for the massive global recession that hit in when the financial system seized up and destroyed tax receipts and increased the benefits bill, due to said recession being in part a result of New Labour's light-touch regulatory policies.  But so too does Mr Cameron, who agred with this policy but in addition, no matter how light-touch Mr Brown was with respect to regulation would, as a Tory, have been even lighter (read Mr Redwood's report of 3 or 4 years ago).  Interestingly, the Lib Dems warned against all this..............

 
No one comes out of this with much credit.  It's a systemic institutional failure. 

 
''.........1000s of people paying good money (which they don't have )''

 
Odd statement.  Do you think all the half million were scroungers or something? 

 
Richard Broughton



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belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 11:09
What intrigues me about the debate that centres around opposing poltical view points is that nothing is ever as straightforward or simplistic as these view points would make out. There is no one politician or even party to blame for the problems we are in. The blame lies with human nature. it is human nature that tries to get as much as possible from others without putting anything in, it is human nature that tries to keep as much as possibe for the self and avoid sharing with those that need help. I still think the common picture of Mr Brown is misguided. He was clever enough to bring in many policies that began to address some of the underlying problems, from examining MP's expenses to weeding out the incompetant managers who had been claiming huge salaries in the state sector. Mr Cameron is not a breath of fresh air who can help, he is a continuation of spin politics and empty posturing. Unless the world can get more honest with itself and it's own short comings we are all bound for big trouble, not just economically but environmentally as well.


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 13:02


quote:
belle wrote:
.......  Unless the world can get more honest with itself and it's own short comings we are all bound for big trouble, not just economically but environmentally as well.

You have hit the nail directly on the head.  There is not one drop/scrap/iota/pinch of honesty in politics or its practitioners. It is a trail of broken promises made for effect without any knowledge or care of the possibilyty outcome. The corruption and deciet is staggering. There is little wonder at the Assange debacle. There must be a lot of very frightened politicians about hoping to get protection as pay back.


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 13:45
''.........1000s of people paying good money (which they don't have )''

 
Odd statement.  Do you think all the half million were scroungers or something?  

I just thought that people may be better looking after their money, rather than a Jolly down to London. We have all been told things are getting tighter so why not hang on to what you have.
Is that Silly or Ridiculous ???
Richard I am not into the scroungers are making everything bad, and I have never been. It is the general misuse of benefits by Goverment to solicit votes I am against, and Godron knew how to do that for 13 years and managed to get us into this mess. I am quite happy to move to means testing for benefits with limits on what is available




Edited by - frankwilk on 28/03/2011 1:57:38 PM



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 15:02
Means testing benefits is only one end of the problem. Less bonuses and perks for the top end is also part of it. As to the peoples democratic right to protest, could it be I was right last week when I said your solution seemed to be a military dictatorship?


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 15:28
Belle you are becoming paranoid when did I advocate a Military Dictatorship ?? What I said was we have an awful lot of Military who are part time ie not required for War 24/7 and could we not make better use of them.
Again I never said people don't have the right to democratic protest. Just would it not have been more cost effective if it had been run across the country, say Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow etc.
It would have saved an awful lot of Travel time and Money.



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 16:08
I should think that most people in this country would not want a dictatorship of any kind, so we must hope that whichever party is voted into power will do its best for the country as a whole, lets face it how many of us would want to take on the responsibility of what government entails. As for the demonstrations, we do have the right to protest, however, it can so easily get out hand and the bigger the crowd the easier it is for those who seek to disrupt for whatever reasons. There is little doubt that there will be those amongst us who see what is happening in the Arab world as an alternative to our way of doing things, but I do believe that any such attempts would be met with an overwhelming amount of resistance, and not just from the authorities. We all have our own points of view, but we shouldn't waste time falling out about it, lifes too short for that. One party keeps banging on about the alternative, I dread to think what that may entail.


thomo Go to Top of Page
belle
VIP Member


6502 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 18:43
Frank I am in no way paranoid, and both times i mentioned military dictatorship it was a question to you, light hearted tongue in cheek, your tendancy toward pomposity is getting the better of you.


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Bradders
Senior Member


1880 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 19:45


quote:
frankwilk wrote:Just would it not have been more cost effective if it had been run across the country, say Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow etc.
It would have saved an awful lot of Travel time and Money.
That is NOT  what you said , or implied . I was not the only one to pick up on your insinuation that the attendees were all a bunch of ne'r-do-wells.

I was heartened to see a photo of Tony Benn with his folding stool and flask amongst the protesters .(and smoking the pipe  !) 

Should he have stayed at home ? .......Was he wasting money that he did not have ?

(I'm guessing that Dennis Skinner was probably unaffected by your gaffe in his regard  , and ventured out as well .....heroes both .)

 

 

 


BRADDERS BLUESINGER Go to Top of Page
HerbSG
Senior Member


1185 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2011 : 20:30
Frank, I can't help thinking of how many of all those people were using bus passes to get to the demonstration! 


HERB


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