Visit the historic Lancashire Textile Project with over 500 photos and 190 taped interviews|2|0
Go to Page
  First Page  Previous Page    7  8  9  [10]  11  12   Next Page  Last Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  29/07/2011  :  06:27
New start as old topic was getting too big. Here's the LINK for the original topic.

Sheds are centres of honest endeavour and sanity, rare things these days. Please join in and tell us what you are doing in your shed. All are welcome!

[By the way, if I occasionally seem to be stating the  bleeding obvious, it's because I'm aware of the fact that not everybody has the same experience so please forgive me.]


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
Replies
Author
Go to Page
  First Page  Previous Page    7  8  9  [10]  11  12   Next Page  Last Page
 
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 06:19
Robert, a good point. A skilled time served lad from Rolls was in my shed one day (he was a relation of  Newton's) and he watched me making a chuck back using calipers and offering up to get a perfect fit and he said "Good to tell who taught you! At Rolls we'd have a computer programme sent down to us to make that and you haven't even made a sketch!" He was right, I have some of Johnny's 'particulars books', little notebooks he took to a job and sketched what was needed. Even for a complicated thing like an air pump or a crankshaft that was all there was and his men made whatever it was from a copy of that sketch. I forget his name but the manager of Rolls at Bankfield once told me that he loved the fact he could sketch something out on a fag packet, leave it with the night shift and the following morning the part was on his desk. The way I work is to get the problem in my head and then think about it.



This pic illustrates it exactly. I was letting my mind wander round the way forward and clamped the HP bottom lid in place on the No 1 bed. A bit of silver steel with a point on it and the dummy brass crankshaft told me I had the position and the vertical right and I worked out that if I did this for each lid and drilled tapping size through the lid extension and the standard I could fit the bottom lids first and then sit the blocks on top located by the registers on the lids and make quite sure I was drilling the block in the right orientation. Then it struck me that once the bottom lids were in place I could measure the angle of the  front support rods and machine the tab on the lid and the pad on the bed and make thecolumns and fit them. Once this is done everything is located properly and I could move onto drilling the clearance holes for the bottom lid studs with confidence. Get one stud at each end of the block in place and tightened down, take the block off with the lids still attached and and drill tapping size using the bottom lid holes as the template knowing that  all the stud holes are correct. A lot easier than the explanation but I think you can follow the drift. Just like the chuck back, one part to be joined is used as the template for the other. No chance of a mistake generated on a drawing board!

The bottom line is that I work best like this and a dummy set-up like the one in the pic makes it easy for me to see the way forward and any snags I might hit. (I found one! One of the HP lids is marked wrong for drilling! Good thing I had a play out.)


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 12:37
Stanley.
             Those scones in the pic look really appetising, lets have atea break.LOL.


Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 13:57
Any time you like Robert! Butter and apricot jam do you?



The HP lids had an error in the dividing, all down to incompetent staff!  Back onto the 1927 lathe and divided one correctly, then bolt the two together and drill them. Same drilling process for the LP top lids which were correct.

 

Lids sorted out, box on!

 

I want the bottom lids mounted correctly on the standards as these set the position for the block, I want to use the block as a template to get them both in the correct position.

 

Once the HP base was in place, the block can be used to find the correct orientation of the LP base.

 

You can't have two many types of clamp! The Mole grips came in handy here to hold the base while I drilled for tapping.

 

I needed a small piece of .040 shim to get the LP perfectly level.  Rather than start adjusting the HP standard all over again a shim was easier and can be easily hidden when we are finishing off. Into the shim box and out came this packet. I've put the pic in to illustrate what I keep saying about never walking past anything. I was in K Steels one day and got this box of Eclipse shim steel for 50p because some of it was rusty. Nowt wrong with that of course, a quick polish with emery and it's as good as the shiny stuff!

 

Close of play today.  The block is sat on the bases located by the bores and I shall do the same job with the other engine before I start working on studding the block. The bases will have to come off again to be drilled for the bottom studs but I needed them mounted with the cylinder block in place so I can work out where the studs go over the mounting pads on the bases which complicate things a bit. I think I might make the front standards as well before I mount the blocks on their studs, easier to get at the junction points. Robert, note that the staff have eaten the scones!

Nice, even though the block is just sitting on the bases we can see what the proportions of the engine are going to be. I like it!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 06:33


All bottom lids fitted to standards and position of block checked by using the them as a template. Top lids are all drilled for studs of course so the next job was to put the top lids on in the correct orientation, template way over inlet drillings and fixed firmly with a bolt right through the assembly. I think you can see the scribe and punch marks that Ive marked on the block and the edge of the lids. These will be the register for the next stage which is to use the top lids as the template for boring the stud holes in the bottom lids, once these are done, the lids will be used as templates for boring the stud holes in the block.

 

Drilling the bottom lids using the punch marks on the edge as a register. One thing to watch, the easiest mistake to make is to forget to orient the lids properly, internal face to internal face. In other words, as they will be when built up. An easy mistake to make and best avoided!

The next step with the studs is going to be studding the bottom face of the block. I shall only do two opposing holes at first and then erect again to make sure I have the positions right before drilling the rest of the holes. If those two are right the others are OK. If they aren't I have a BIG problem! I've decided the front support pillars can wait for a bit.

I had a visit from Kirk Burwell of Hemingway Kits  yesterday. I like this engine and think it deserves a wider audience, particularly because of the Johnny Pickles connection. You might remember that when I was first looking at these castings I did some research and found that the castings were available in Australia but were very expensive. I have given Kirk Johnny's patterns and he is going to market it as the Pickles version of the Bahrett 1922 prize-winning engine. He's really enthusiastic about doing this and of course having the patterns removes the biggest initial obstacle and expense to getting the castings out there.

Kirk trades as Hemingway Kits, see this LINK.  He has a lot of work to do of course producing drawings that match Johnny's design so don't hold your breath. He reckons that he will have the project ready to go by the time I have finished the basic engine and I have agreed to lend him one of them to use at his visits to ME exhibitions up and down the country to promote it. I want to make it quite clear that I am doing this pro bono, I don't want any money out of it, my aim is to make it as easy as possible for others to make the engine if they like it and also to raise Johnny's profile. He is a forgotten man and was such a marvellous engineer and craftsman.

There was a bonus which will involve money. Can you remember me saying I had the original Hemingway kit for producing the dividing head designed by Thomas for the Myford Lathe? Kirk still sells this kit so he has taken mine, will sell it and after taking a commission will send me the remainder. It won't ne a fortune but it gets it off my back, I have no yearning to build it, I have dividing tackle running out of my ears! One other thing he told me was that Myford Lathes are no more. From what he said, they have simply stopped the business, not run into trouble. If so it is the end of an era as far as home engineering is concerned.

So, all good news. Keep your eye on Hemingway Kits site and I'll flag it up when it's on the go. By the way, OG will get a welcome mention in the advertising, can't be bad!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 06:37
Just had a look at the Myford site, looks as though they have been bought out by RDG Tools. Good news for the lads, they are still available.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 08:36


I have popped back in to report the death of an old friend.  I must have had this Eclipse Automatic punch for over 50 years and it has never let me down. However, this morning it popped its last hole. I started to take it to bits and then thought bugger it, it's had a long life and I have a new one in the drawer. By the way, if you want to strip one down, the screw in the head is left hand thread! I love my old tools and look after them but they all have a sell-by date. There will be a two minutes silence.......


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Asquith
New Member


23 Posts
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:42
This thread has both inspired and depressed me.

35 years ago I bought a set of castings for a Stuart Turner No. 9 horizontal engine.

I didn’t get much chance to work on it, and when I did, I made slow progress, and always felt I was wasting my time, so the bits would be put away for months and years.

I believe I can claim to be the world’s worst machinist. The work that I eventually turn out usually doesn’t look too bad, but isn’t necessarily within tolerance, and takes an inordinate amount of time to get there. I don’t seem to get better with practice, either. Stanley can work quickly and accurately.

Another problem is that when I spend hours in the workshop, I feel guilty about not doing things that need doing around the house. This, combined with slow progress, lead me to abandon the work.

However, seeing what Stanley has achieved, despite his other activities, encouraged me to stick at it. My wife is very supportive, despite the slippage on domestic projects. When she pops into the workshop, she often finds me frowning over another mistake, and wonders if it’s redeemable, and I point out that there aren’t many things that can’t be mended or modified, somehow.

I am now building up quite a collection of nearly-finished engine bits. I’ve just nearly finished the crosshead, which is certainly the trickiest part I’ve machined so far, having a large (facets to be machined accurately/overall size) ratio.

In passing, I’ll mention that the crosshead is a small malleable iron casting. It’s debatable whether having a small casting makes life easier or more difficult, but what surprised me was that the material machines like free-cutting mild steel. Beautiful stuff. Unlike phosphor bronze, which is the work of the devil, wresting control of the tools from the operator.

I can’t blame the tools for my failings. I’ve acquired some nice stuff over the years. A Myford lathe, old Centec milling machine, a little hand-operated planer. My favourite measuring tools include Mitutoyo digital calipers and a beautifully-made Chesterman vernier height gauge - very useful in conjunction with a Verdict finger-type dial indicator.

I wish that I’d gone for a larger model engine. Some of the parts are too small when it comes to holding firmly in the chuck or machine vice, and interminable light cuts are the order of the day. Strangely enough, when milling small items, I prefer the Myford to the milling machine, as control is more sensitive, and it’s quiet enough to be able to hear when the tool is just licking the workpiece, and to hear the wireless.

I’ve recently been looking at some Victorian machine tools, and I’m left in awe of what the old timers produced with primitive equipment. Accurate work was needed, but the skilled men, working in badly-lit shops had no means of measuring precisely. Of course they often worked to go/no go gauges, but they had no micrometers, or vernier calipers, or leadscrew dials calibrated in thous. Having said that, I having been looking at an 1880s milling machine that did have feed dials, but they appear to be graduated in 256ths of an inch! At the risk of distracting people from more useful activities, here’s some more information:-

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/1880s-milling-machine-233153/

I’ll stop there, but not before thanking Stanley for his inspiring thread, and for the invaluable tips and historical snippets.


Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 06/10/2011 : 04:06
Good Lad John, I knew you were out there watching me! You really are too hard on yourself, our problem is that we know all the faults so we know we are poseurs and bums. Best thing to do is follow my line, I never claim to be an engineer or an expert, just a bum fitter who puts no finish on his work. All I aim for is that when I've built an engine and put steam or compressed air on it it works! If people want to think differently that's up to them. As for the time, I'm selfish and self-centered, I live on my own, I'm retired and do exactly what I want to do and in truth am a bit anti-social but that's what suits me.

A story for you, when I helped John Ingoe with Annie his Paxman traction engine we had great fun going to the steam fairs and trundling round causing mayhem. We were down in Cheshire and were looking at a magnificent showman's engine, 'Lord of the Isles'. I had a good look at it and then I told the bloke who owned it he should be ashamed of himself, it was so perfect the rest of us ought to give up! Then I asked him if he had made the mistake on the offside driving wheel. You should have seen his face! He told me I was the only bloke that had noticed. The problem was that when they machined the hub after casting the wheel with embedded spokes and rim they got the centre wrong and when they skimmed the tyre after it was shrunk on it was 1/2" thicker at one side than the other. My point is that nobody is perfect and even the old 'experrts' made mistakes. Look at my description of the Whitlees engine, when I rebuilt it I found they had made a BIG mistake that had serious consequences over the years but they had covered it up. Nobody is perfect! (Except for a few saintly beings like Johnny and Cherry Hinton!)

You're right about scale, the bigger they are the easier. Johnny made his big mill engine 1/2" to the foot and said it was like watchmaking when you got to the 1/2" rods in the valve gear, he said he's never do it again. He never made a domestic chiming clock either for the same reason. Newton decided he'd go one better than his dad and was driven to despair by the Westminster Chimes he put in Beryl's grandfather clock! He made it three times before it worked.

So stop playing hell with yourself, give your wife a big hug and a kiss and get the bloody engine finished! (Then get a set of castings for this marine engine off Kirk and get going again, no small bits, everything easier to get at). By the way, I agree with you about castings for small parts, you can be lucky and get good metal but you can also lose work through blowholes etc., I'd rather chop them out of the solid. One more thing, if you think phosphor bronze is bad, get a lump of cast aluminium bronze and try that, it's a turner's joke!

Thanks for taking the time to respond.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 06/10/2011 : 04:32


I told you that the junction between the lid studs and the mounting pads for the the lids to the standards got complicated! I had to counerbore all the stud holes that interfered and note that you have to do the couterbores big enough to accept a socket wrench to tighten them up! It helps if you skim the 2BA socket down a touch so that it fits in a 1/2" hole!  Only one way to locate the counterbore, put the 3/16" drill in the chuck, find the centre and then pop the 1/2" end mill in, a good drill chuck is not as good as my milling chucks but will do the job.

 

Close of play. All the bottom lids counter-bored so, making quite sure you have got the right matching lids if you are making two engines, set the block up with the lids all firmly bolted down and drill the stud holes  1/2" deep then tap them before taking the setup down, makes it easier to get the tapping dead accurate and you can test them all using a 2BA set screw. Notice the pop marks I made as a register, important that they are in line or the blocks won't fit the standards!

By the way, the counterbores are a mess I know but they will never be seen. Plan is to gently drill and tap away until all the lid stud holes are done, then, before fitting the studs (cut from 2BA threaded rod, no mucking about making studs!), we'll attack the steam chest stud holes while the casting is still uncluttered and can be held firmly in the milling vice..... Another advantage of doing it this way is that you do some drilling then some tapping, if you do all the drilling first and then tap about 110 holes you'll get tennis elbow and be very bored!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Hemingway Kits
New Member


1 Posts
Posted - 06/10/2011 : 17:18
Hi Stanley,  It was a rare pleasure meeting you and Jack yesterday.  I had a great day out - Barnoldswick is looking at its finest this time of year.  The conversation and the tea were truly world class. 

I was impressed how you've managed to get a gallon out of a pint pot up there.  For those that can't see from Stanley's photos, he's managed to get 2 big lathes, 2 mills and a Clarkson T & C grinder into a 6' x 14' workshop with, apparently, room to spare!   

I'll try to keep everyone up to date with my progress on the Bahrett-Pickles Engine.  I'll hope to have a set of 3D drawings and full material kit available for the Harrogate show in May 2012.  If you can't contain yourself till then, please send me a note and I'll put you on a reserve list so that you can be at the head of the queue?  

For posterity (a most important thing!), I've shown the wooden patterns for the engine below:

BP Patterns, 2 of 2BP Patterns, 1 of 2
  














The bedplate casting measures 9" x 8" with a diagonal of just over 11" - accordingly, it won't swing in the gap of a Myford lathe... No real problem if you've got a miller - if not then filing and scraping will work as well today as it did in 1924! 

Stanley tells me that this is the type of engine that would have been fitted to a "Clyde Puffer", cargo boats of around 60 - 90ft length carrying cargo from Scotalnd to the islands.  I'm going to have to research these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clyde_puffer).


Kirk @ Hemingway Kits Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 06:38
Kirk, Im impressed to see you have started! I should have the engines finished in time for you to have one for the trade stand. Re. the bed, the patterns are so good that apart from the mounting screw lugs and the pedestals, nothing need to be done. Even with a Myford and a pillar drill, it's amazing what can be done with simple fly-cutters. Newton was a great fan of them and used them in his Senior miller. The only reason I have never used them is because I was lucky and have milling cutters running out of my ears from the scrap yards. One of the joys of home machining is finding ways of doing 'impossible' jobs with the available tackle. Meanwhile, in the Shed.....



You might wonder what this pic is for.... Yesterday was all drilling and tapping. One good thing is that it's quiet and as Askers said, you can listen to the wireless in comfort!  Here's the block set up, all holes drilled and ready for tapping on the bed without moving any settings, makes for more accurate placement. But you knew this so why a pic?

All the holes are full of CI chips and you can't invert it and shake them out, many are blind holes of course. Also, when tapping you need to keep the hole clear. Look up on the side of the miller head and you'll see what looks like a block of steel behind the spindle reurn spring housing. This is something given to me by a neighbour when she found it was no good. She had bought one of those window cleaning gadgets which have two pads, one for the outside of the window and one for the inside. The outside pad is held in place by soft metal keepers sandwiched on very powerful block magnets. Useless for window cleaning but good magnets are always handy. These are so powerful that the only way to separete them is in the vice using a hammer and wedges. It sits on the side of the miller head until needed.

Notice that my Eclipse scriber is in one of the holes. I think you are getting the picture! Park the scriber on the magnets and it becomes magnetic. Dip it into the hole and it comes out with a CI beard, two or three dips and the hole is clear. So simple and so effective. Go out and find one of the miracle window cleaners, break it up and you have two of the most powerful magnets obtainable. Join the magnetic club!

 

Almost close of play. Here wae have the LP face of the No 1 engine  block drilled and tapped. I turned it over, fitted the HP lids, clamped it down and drilled the tapping holes ready for tapping today. Four hours work, 44 holes, 12 counterbores and 22 tappings. Doesn't look much but add in tool changes whan lining up for counterboring etc and you have 90 operations plus locating for drilling. A minimum of two and a half operations a minute.  Not a bad work rate for an Old Fart, quite pleased with myself.

I was right about alternating the drilling and tapping, no problems with my elbow and I didn't get bored! Following the same principle I shall attend to finishing the steam chests, drilling the tapping hols and tapping them ready for studding. Then I might stud the whole of the No 1 block and do a temporary assemble before moving on the the No 2 block. Breaks the work up, doesn't waste any time and has the advantage that I'll know whether I got the bottom lid studs right before I move on. The block should be a perfect fit on the standards but I'll only be sure when it's mounted!

Just occurred to me that I have a new boss! Kirk will be checking in to keep an eye on the progress of his trade exhibit! I shall have to make sure he explains that the engine is an example of what a bum fitter can do who is useless at finishing! I think you ought to have a little compressor under the bench Kirk and have it running.....  That might divert some of the criticism from the 'experts'!  What the hell have I let myself in for?!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 06:46
Best introduction to the Clyde Puffer I know is 'Puffer Ahoy!' by Gorge W Burrows, published 1981, Glasgow. Look up JENNIE built 1902 at Larne and wrecked off Eigg in 1954 in fog. Then look on the site for her. I found her remains jammed into a cave on Eigg. Nice to have things like that in your mind when you are making something like the engine.

 

Have a lok at this LINK if you are really interested, you can be the proud owner for £15.56.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Asquith
New Member


23 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 11:31
Welcome, Kirk.

Stanley, we were working in parallel yesterday. I was milling a small, deep pocket (not the sort favoured by my boozing pal has) in cast iron, and I had the same problem with iron filings. I used a riffler file which happened to be magnetic (this was an accidental discovery - I was actually using the file to fish out a little screw that had dropped in there!).

I milled the port face of the engine cylinder, and then decided I might get a better finish by flycutting, without worrying about tool wear.


Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 19:23
Newton swore by his fly-cutters. perhaps I should have a go.

Disaster in the shed! No 3BA nuts! Have had to spend a fortune at Reeves......


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 04:44


Finished tappingthe lid stud holes on No 1 block and shifted attention to steam chests. First thing to do is decide on stud placement. Remember to miss drilling into steam ways and valve rod location. Remember also that you have to miss the exhaust port on the block. As for number of studs, it always looks like too few but less is better and I've never seen a steam chest joint leak.

 

After I had drilled the chest for 2BA I had a rethink, I can manage that size but they sre very tight so I decided to stud for 3BA. These holes are oversize but won't be seen so no problem. The problem came when I went digging for 3BA studding and  nuts. Shock horror! The treasure chest let me down and the storekeeper has been put on jankers. Quick trip on the web to Reeves and 200 full nuts ordered. Then a thought that perhaps I shoul;d have tried my new best friend Kirk first! Ah well, I don't think his firm will stand or fall on two boxes of nuts! The nuts won't hold me up as I have plenty of studding, some of it brass but that's no worry.

Now I have to transfer the drilling of the chest to the lid and then use the lid as the template for drilling the stud holes in the valve face. Notice that doing one block at once has paid off, I have picked up the stud size problem early in the game.

One thing that struck me yesterday was the number of times I refer to a very old and tattered book, 'Standard Screw Threads and Twist Drills' by George Gentry. Published by Percival Marshall around 1920. It has all the old screw thread tables including Cycle and the old US standard threads. It even has lens mount threads. The beauty of the tables is that they show all the details and alternative tapping drills including letter and number drills. It's surprising how often this information comes in handy. By the way, if anyone is ever stuck for threading gear for old bikes, have a word with me, I have a complete set of taps and dies for cycle sizes including the LH bottom bracket and pedal mount taps. 

 


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Topic is 20 Pages Long:
Go to Page
  First Page  Previous Page    7  8  9  [10]  11  12   Next Page  Last Page
 


Set us as your default homepage Bookmark us Privacy   Copyright 2004-2011 www.oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk All Rights Reserved. Design by: Frost SkyPortal.net Go To Top Of Page

Page load time - 0.625