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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  25/11/2004  :  14:20
I've always been fascinated by the things people do in their spare time when they can do exactly what they want to do. Men and sheds are a particularly fertile field. Women tend to do their thing in the comfort of the house.



I was delighted to see Andy's picture of the clock movement he has made.







It struck me that we could perhaps start a new topic devoted to spare time skill. So Andy starts it off and my contribution is this:







It's a small steam engine made from scratch and is based on the Stuart 5A but a longer stroke. One of these will drive a 14 foot boat with steam at 250psi. By the way, we don't like to call them models, it's exactly the same construction and materials as a full size engine, just smaller. So come on out there, let's hear about what you make in your spare time. I reckon we could be in for some surprises!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 08/02/2007 : 10:23
Not quite Belle, just a good rough turner....  Have spent two hours tidying every nook and cranny in the workshop and I haven't finished yet.  I'm convinced I have that worm wheel.....  As Sue says, if you look long enough you will find it!  Glad you like the pics, from the number of hits there are quite a few people following the saga of the 1927 lathe!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 08/02/2007 : 12:58
Later.... I have had the best root and tidy ever but the worm wheel escapes me.  Could I be wrong?  I have this powerful memory of holding it in my hand but can I find it?  It would be quicker to make another and you can bet your boots that as soon as I do that I will find the original.  I think they call it Sod's Law!  Onward and upward, Excelsior!!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 17:58

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The tangential gear is cleaned up and back on the lathe.  I'm thinking about the worm while I attack a cutting frame to use with the overhead gear........  I've tried it on the lathe and it runs nicely, bit more cleaning up needed I think.....  Oh, by the way, in the meantime I have added a three step pulley to the lineshaft to give me 4 speeds on the overhead.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 11:42

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another clean-up and refitting job.  This is a fly-cutting frame for making grooves horizontally in a work piece.  Used with the dividing head you can flute a column.  It is driven by the overhead gear which is seen here coupled up and tensioned by the counterweight at the back.  The drive to the mandrel is disconnected of course by simply taking the belt off the pulleys and letting it hang loose.  however, if you look carefully I have a problem.....  I'm sure this frame was made for this lathe because the centre height is right but as it is mounted here, it can't be brought back far enough to work properly.  The saddle slide is as far back as it can go.  There is a very simple answer to this but as yet it isn't evident.  I shall let it sit on my mind until the solution comes to me!




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 17:33

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marvellous what a couple of hours sleep can do.  I woke up remembering the big ornamental  slide turning rest that lives with the big 1956 Pickles lathe.  I had a look and sure enough, crafty bugger Johnny had made it so that it fits both lathes!  I had always discounted this because it is so heavily built but here you are, it fits perfectly and the clue is that the fly cutter in the frame is at centre height for the 1927 lathe.  There is rise and fall on the duppoting pillar in the clamp so it fits the 1956 lathe as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another view....  it is all going to need a good clean-up tomorrow.  It isn't as bad as the flash makes it look.  It is all there, notice the adjustable stops at each end of the slide, the lever operation and the dtop on the cross slide. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An overall view and oops!  There's some rust on the lathe bed below the front slide that I've missed!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notice that there is another slot in the toolholder at right angles to the one the frame is mounted in.  This means that you can use the rest in any orientation and you can also swing the lot round and work across the face as well in either turning or fly-cutting mode.  The ornamemtal slide turning rest is one of the most versatile attachments you can have on a lathe and coupled with the tangential dividing gear makes it into a true ornamental lathe.  In modern terms this is an eighty year old 'machining centre'.  Well done Johnny!  Tomorrow we have cleaning of parts.........




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 07:33
I looked back in my Model Engineers last night and re-discovered a fact that I'd forgotten or was not sure about.  Johnny entered the 1927 lathe in the Model Engineering exhibition in London in 1928 and was awarded Silver for the lathe.  They wouldn't give Gold to a professional, that was reserved for amateurs.  Edgar Westbury mentioned it in an obituary for Johhny in the ME for 5 December 1969.  Unfortunately he mixes up the 1927 lathe with the 1956 lathe, the pic with the article is of the later lathe which I think might also have won a prize.  This pic gave me a clue about how Johnny used the slide rest on this bigger lathe, he has it monted on the saddle and I have the fitting that he used......  I'll leave that alone until I tackle the 1956.  I want to bottom the 1927 lathe first.  There is the worm wheel for the tangential gear and I have found some bronze gears that are the right pitch and size to make a set of gears but they are the wrong bore so there will have to be a bit of bushing, boring and keyway cutting!  If you look carefully at the second pic in the previous response you'll see a black gear wheel stand in the back of the tray.  I rescued that a couple of days ao......


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 12:27

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Later....  The slide rest is in bits and it was quite a job.  It's had a hard life since Johhny used it last about 40 years ago just before he died.  The small pan head screws holding the cross slide together were as fast as a thief.  I'm afraid the hammer had to be used on the screwdriver in order to shock them loose.  I was looking at the long left hand thread feed screw which has a square thread.  I'd hate to have to turn that!  Somewhere in the treasure box I'll bet there is a left hand thread square tap for finishing the feed nut, that was a favourite trick of Johhny's, he seemed to be able to make and harden a special tap so easily.  I suppose in his early days they made a lot of their own taps......  I have a box full of them and special hobs as well.  All made from cast steel and hardened.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2007 : 17:42

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks a bit better doesn't it!  It's taken a bit of elbow grease and I'm sorry to say, mild abrasives to get the rust off.  I haven't altered any of the fits, I was very careful with the mating services but some parts were worse than I thought and there is some pitting.  None of this affects the utility of the rest, as far as that's concerned it is in perfect condition.  I haven't done the fitting that it sits on which is fixed to the bed, I've done enough for today.  That can wait until tomorrow.....  Another small step forwards.......




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
TOM PHILLIPS
Steeplejerk


4164 Posts
Posted - 12/02/2007 : 18:53
Its looking very good Stanley,how far are you from completion of the project.


"Work,the curse of the drinking class" Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2007 : 06:48
There's no end to it Tom.  I'll do the base casting of the slde today and then I need to make some specialised chucks and fittings.  The next thing could be making a copy of a Holtzapfel ellitical chuck.  I have an old one in very bad nick and will post a pic when we gat to that stage.  One of the interesting things is that I still have Johnny parts in me treasure box that I don't know the use of.  As I go on I learn more and suddenly the penny drops.  So God knows what I'll be into before I call the project finished and move on to actually doing a bit of ornamental turning so I can show you all how it works and what beautiful things you can do with it.  One thing is certain, in the end I'll have one of the most versatile lathes in the country in me front room.  Even the ornamental turners would agree that this lathe was designed to do things they wouldn't attempt in their specialised lathes.  That was what Johhny was after, a compact lathe that he could do anything on.  The only firm I know of that got anywhere near this was Birch at Manchester.  There was another firm called Fern that did similar things but I have never seen one of their lathes.  I'll bet Johhny had and incorporated some of their ideas.......


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/02/2007 : 16:41

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the slide rest all cleaned up with the cutting frame in place and the overhead drive connected up.  Notice that the overhead drive has grown another 3 step pulley on the flyshaft so I now have 4 speeds on it.  I think you can probably see that if there was a wood or ivory workpiece in the lathe you could cut any shaped groove you wanted and at any angle, even across the face.  When I have made the worm for the tangential gear I shall be able to make any number of divisions, that is space any number of cuts.  This is the essence of a lathe equipped for ornamental turning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had this pic too big and it's distorted as I edited it but I think it's clear enough.  This is a very old elliptical chuck that came to me years ago for TLC and has laid there ever since.  I suspect it might be a Holtzapfel made chuck but can't be sure.  The brass components are OK but all the steel bits are rusted beyond recovery.  I shall have to take it to bits and re-make it.  Its purpose is the enable you to mount a workpiece and then by using a feed screw at the back vary the centre.  Using this you can turn a round workpiece oval or decorate it on the face with elliptical patterns.  (I think!)  I have never done any ornamental turning and so I'll have to read it up.  First though, it needs a bit of TLC......  (and a worm for the tangential gear)




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 14/02/2007 : 06:11

I ran the overhead gear last night still using the old quarter inch leather belt that is in the pic when Johnny was using it.  It broke!  However, you won't be surprised to know that I have two coils of leather belting and fasteners..... 

 

 




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 14/02/2007 : 06:37
I mucked up the pic.....  The two coils are brand new leather belt and really they want dropping in a bucket of neat's foot oil for about 3 months and then leaving to drain for the same amount of time.  I think I'll use the modern plastic stuff temporarily but cut a piece of 1/4 leather rope and soak it.  When it's nice and supple I'll fit it.  Mind you, I wonder what would happen if I git some lard and melted it in a pan and cooked the rope in it for 30 minutes?  I think I'll try that, far more exciting and of course in character, the plastic drive wasn't about when the lathe was built.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 14/02/2007 : 07:33
I once asked a man who knew about these things how it was possible to make a continuous length of 100 feet of drive rope because cows don't come in that size!  he told me that a top class hide was chosen and a square section cut in a spiral.  This was then forced through a sharpened die which shaved it to a round section.  Simple when you know how.....


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 15/02/2007 : 12:26

TANGENTIAL DIVIDING

I decided this morning that instead of avoiding the worm wheel for the tangential gear on the 1927 lathe I’d better attack it.

First thing was to establish the pitch and diameter of the worm wheel, 12 TPI and 5/8 inch diameter. Next thing was to make a decision about the size of the worm gear I have to make for the mandrel. I put the pic of Johnny using the lathe up on the screen and measured the apparent diameter of the index plate on the worm which looked about the same diameter as the missing gear. They look about the same so I started with 5” diameter. That is approx. 15.7 inch circumference and at 12TPI gives 188 teeth. A common size for these gears is 40 teeth but I was obviously into a far higher number. Question is why and what. Time for a cup of tea and a pipe!

I decided to read dividing up again and was lucky enough to find an article on the web written by a man who was into making mounts for telescopes. He made the point that using a 360 teeth gear makes dividing in degrees easier and it struck me that Johnny made an astronomical telescope and wouldn’t it be handy if he could divide into degrees easily. I’m willing to bet my pension that we are looking at a 180 teeth gear. Half a turn on the worm would give a one degree division. This fits with the sizes I can see on the picture.

So, we need a formula to give me the gear blank size I need for 180 teeth at 12TPI. The pitch circle diameter of the gear must be 180 teeth divided by 12TPI which is 15”. PCD is 2 pR, so 2R is 15/p which is 4.773” near enough. Allow a fraction because the PCD is the diameter of the point of contact and 4.8 should be a good place to start. This isn’t the accepted way of working out blank sizes but it looks as though it should work. I have never done this before so rather than do a lot of worrying I’ll just crash on and cut it. What I need now is a bronze lump big enough to make the blank. Into the treasure chests again!

I just had a thought and looked again at the other tangential head I have for the 1927 lathe. The worm is 6TPI so with the same size blank I can cut a 90 teeth gear. This also would give degree divisions. It looks as though Johnny made two sets for the lathe. He has ditched this in favour of the finer worm. Greater number of choices of divisions? I don’t know enough about this to make a decision. All I can say for certain is that the finer worm head has the better finish and a slightly different dividing plate. The fine head has division circles of 11, 12, 26, 27, 28 and 30. The coarse is 26, 27, 28 and 30. It looks as though he was learning as well and the fine head is a refinement that gave him greater versatility.

I’ve found a 3/8 thick cast bronze plate big enough to cut a 5” blank out of it. I’ll have another search to see if there is anything better but if all else fails, this is it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the plate and lying on top of it the hob that Johnny made to cut the original wheel.  Bit rusty but it will soon clean up and hopefully I can do a good job with it.  Hobbing is new to me, I might have a bit of a practice first on some scrap.  Of course, before I do this I'll jave to make a fixture for holding the blank and cutting the worm.  It's going to be interesting!




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
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