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Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob


3044 Posts
Posted -  12/07/2011  :  09:11
Tesco are considering opening a store in Barnoldswick.

They claim it will create 175 jobs and keep shoppers in the town, as well as saving local firm L&P Springs.

There are 2 exhibitions taking place this Friday and Saturday for people to gain more information.

Views, anyone? 


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Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 10:25


quote:
tomket wrote:
Yes it is officially classed as an OUT OF TOWN site because it is more than 300 metres from the officially designated Town Centre as recognised by Pendle Town Council.

Where exactly is the "officially designated Town Centre" ?


Big Kev

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tomket
New Member


37 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 10:33
You will need to ask Pendle Council that.


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Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 10:54


quote:
tomket wrote:
You will need to ask Pendle Council that.

Why so obstructive? If you are in a position to stateYes it is officially classed as an OUT OF TOWN site because it is more than 300 metres from the officially designated Town Centre as recognised by Pendle Town Council"

why can't you just give a concise answer?


Big Kev

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tomket
New Member


37 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 11:08
I am not being obstructive. I dont have the exact information as it is on a map that the council have.

I dont have the map but I know it is an OUT OF TOWN site.

Is that concise enough ?


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Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 11:22
Yes. But why not add that information to your original response?

The written word, especially on a forum such as this, cannot be perceived with any feeling or emotion. The simple statement "You will need to ask Pendle Council that" without any context gives the impression, to me, of obstruction.


Big Kev

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tomket
New Member


37 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 11:32
I understand what you are saying, but, as you rightly say this is a forum and if you dont know the full facts you could mis lead people.

Your comment of 'it's not really  out of town though is it' misleads from the facts.

It is the same way that the major retailers mis-represent the issues and that is why I wanted to point out that it is classed as an 'OUT OF TOWN' development.

I am not giving an emotional response - merely a factual one.


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Big Kev
Big


2650 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 11:42
No worries. Is it out of town or edge of town? I can't seem to find a definitive answer.


Big Kev

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tomket
New Member


37 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 11:47
Kev

I am not sure of the exact guidelines but it is something like:-

Town Centre has to be within the town centre map guidelines that I mentioned earlier.

Edge of Town is within 300 metres of the town centre

Out of Town is over 300 metres from the Town Centre.

That is my understanding.


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Whyperion
Regular Member


122 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 12:06
Maybe Fernlea Avenue, Barnoldswick BB18 5DW

( Source http://www.pendle.gov.uk/directory_record/768/barnoldswick_town_centre_car_park/category/136/west_craven )

 

or if you prefer

http://www.visitpendle.com/towns-and-villages/barnoldswick-p96220 

"On 17th March 1997, Pendle Council made Barnoldswick town centre a Conservation Area (including Manchester Road, Westgate and Town Head)."

 Or from www.pendle.gov.uk/download/6383/pendle_retail_survey_2010

From 2006 onwards all premises within the town centre boundary, as defined on the Replacement Pendle Local Plan (2001‐2016) Proposals Map, have been included in the survey.

Barnoldswick reveals that unlike the town centres in Nelson and Colne, there is no core retail area in Barnoldswick.

Shops are concentrated on Church Street, Newtown, Albert Road and Rainhall Road.

Within the four primary shopping frontages non‐shopping uses now occupy 23.7% (9 of 38 units)

Within the nine secondary shopping frontages non‐shopping uses now occupy 34.8% of all units (25 of 71), which represents a considerable reduction from 41.7% (30 of 72) recorded in 2008. 

The 50% limit on non‐shopping uses, measured by frontage length, has been exceeded on three of the nine frontages (Albert Road into Post Office Buildings , Church Street ) , [ Comment I think these should be redefined away from being secondary shopping areas as they dont really fit into the tight town centre area ]

{Gisburn Road is defined as a local shopping centre }

The town, or local shopping, centre boundary is intended to enclose the retail core, ogether with associated leisure, arts, culture, tourism and other uses (e.g. office, bus and rail stations) normally associated with town centres.

It should also include adjacent areas that are considered to be suitable for such developments in the future. This boundary then forms the basis for applying a sequential test {Basically can a proposed development fit in the area}, which is used to direct such uses towards sustainable town centre locations.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/pdf/1356176.pdf


Where a proposal is outside of a town centre, the application must demonstrate a proven need for the service or retail provision in line with Policy 25 and PPS6: Planning for Town Centres

Town centres are represented by the Areas of Town Centre Activity (ATCAs) and Retail Cores. ATCA boundaries exist for 1999-2004


Unfortunatley the government is unhelpful , web link :

Communities and neighbourhoods (Places Database)Site Closed

As of 30 November 2011, the Department has closed the Places Database and its associated analytical views. Further information on alternative sources for data contained within these views will be published in due course on this page [ http://www.communities.gov.uk/corporate/researchandstatistics/publicdatasources/communitiesneighbourhoods/ ]

Rather useful given Mary Portas' report to government today [ Ideas include Free or Cheaper Parking , Easier to set up Shopping opportunties and and increase in number of markets , active ( Local Government  ?  ) management of town centres.

 I feel I am somewhat against active management (interference) , some of the most vibrant shopping areas have happened almost by accident , in London often by immigrant people ( I could quote locations but they probably wont mean much to most readers here ). One place is Queen Street Market in Upton Park , where there was a constant battle between traders trying to improve the whole place and council officials seemingly trying to close it. Queen Street as a whole is a little like Barnoldswick , but with a much higher population , in that the shops are relatively small , only one main chain supermarket , and no where to expand with a larger supermarket attracting further local footfall ( possibly one exception in that areas case ) , with larger out of town stores a comparable distance and travel time to Colne and Skipton. 

 

Back to the original question , it seems that the town centre of Barnoldswick is the town centre of Barnoldswick , rather than clearly being prescribed by a set distance along defined roads. 

 

Edited by - Whyperion on 13/12/2011 12:09:16


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Whyperion
Regular Member


122 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 12:12
Edge-of-centre is defined as:

for retail purposes; a location that is well connected to and within easy walking distance (i.e. up to 300 metres) of the primary shopping area, and for all other main town centre uses this is likely to be within 300 metres of a town centre boundary.

For office development, locations outside the town centre but within 500 metres of a public transport interchange, including railway and bus stations, within the urban area should be considered as edge-of-centre locations for purposes of the sequential approach.

Only if a development cannot be accommodated in the preferred town or local shopping centre should it be allowed at the edge-of-centre and then finally out-of-centre in an existing shopping area.

 

-- Comment --

Is it 300m from the centre of the Primary Shopping Area , or 300m from the edge?

Is the distance limit so that the development is accessible without cars , or so that the development will enhance the existing town centre?  Example might be if Tesco wanted to create a superstore on the Former Kippax Biscuits Factory site in Colne (itself the former Colne Market Hall I understand ) , where I would imagine the connection between such a superstore and that town centre would enhance the town centre,

Edited by - Whyperion on 13/12/2011 12:17:55


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tomket
New Member


37 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 12:36
I would imagine it is from the edge. If it was from the centre it could still feasibly be still in the town centre.


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panbiker
Senior Member


2300 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 15:16
As a Barlicker and without refering to any official plans, surveys or whatever. I would say that the town centre is the area and shopping streets immediately surrounding what is now the town square. We dont have a railway station anymore so all public transport is via bus. All buses in the town tend to either arrive or depart or have a stop on or adjacent to Station Road which in itself can also be considered to be adjacent to the town centre.

The proposed development is on the industrial estate bordered by Skipton Road, Wellhouse Road and Valley Road and not Wellhouse Square. Taking this into account,. It is in walking distance of what is my perceived town centre as long as you are fit enough. It may be more of a challenge for older folk especially if they have 3 or 4 shopping bags. It would also be a challenge for anyone if they were relying on public transport to get to and from the location.

Oh, and as a guess I would think it is slightly more than 300mtrs from the town square to the middle of the aforementioned industrial estate.


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tomket
New Member


37 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 15:55

Valid points but.......

There is a pendle plan that details with facts where the perimeters of the Town Centre are.
There is no guess work involved.

Part of the problem with this proposal is that people are making judgements without knowing the full facts.


quote:
panbiker wrote:
As a Barlicker and without refering to any official plans, surveys or whatever. I would say that the town centre is the area and shopping streets immediately surrounding what is now the town square. We dont have a railway station anymore so all public transport is via bus. All buses in the town tend to either arrive or depart or have a stop on or adjacent to Station Road which in itself can also be considered to be adjacent to the town centre.

The proposed development is on the industrial estate bordered by Skipton Road, Wellhouse Road and Valley Road and not Wellhouse Square. Taking this into account,. It is in walking distance of what is my perceived town centre as long as you are fit enough. It may be more of a challenge for older folk especially if they have 3 or 4 shopping bags. It would also be a challenge for anyone if they were relying on public transport to get to and from the location.

Oh, and as a guess I would think it is slightly more than 300mtrs from the town square to the middle of the aforementioned industrial estate.




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panbiker
Senior Member


2300 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 16:07
So where is the town centre then?


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tomket
New Member


37 Posts
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 16:14
please refer to Whyperion comments of 12.06 above regarding the Pendle Plan

quote:
panbiker wrote:
So where is the town centre then?




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