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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  15/12/2007  :  07:03
I thought it might be a good thing to have a topic devoted to this important subject.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 23:34
Tizer  just remind me again how was coal laid down all those years ago !!!!!!



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 07:11
No Tripps, read it. You have to know the enemy.

Frank, I never mentioned cars. The report from the CSO was about food shortages. Barking mad refers to Lawson and anyone who disputes CC or global warming. Sorry if I confused you.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 07:17
Frank, that's a red herring. 12,000 years ago there was 3kilometers of ice covering Aberdeen. In both cases there were no humans about. The ground under your house is still rising with the rebound effect of removing the weight. The thing about the present changes is that they are largely caused by humans and in climatic terms, very fast. Personally I don't think we can stop it now. Our kids are going to have to learn how to survive. Great prospect. All we can do is address the immediate effects, food and water shortage, energy crisis and rising sea levels.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 08:12
All we can do is address the immediate effects, food and water shortage, energy crisis and rising sea levels.

Stanley the reports are so conflicting, and goverment has jumped on a bandwagon. Raise tax but don't change anything will not help. I have personally not changed anything I did before, all I am doing is to pay more tax for doing it..
Everyone else's Herrings are Red accept the ones that support yours or mine's point of view lol 
Is it Red Herrings that sell Newspapers !!!!!!!!!!!



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 09:36
Frank, the scientific reports are not conflicting - the consensus view is that drastic climate change is happening and that it is driven by human activity. But there are conflicting interpretations of what we should do about it.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 07:56
Tiz is right. The science is quite clear and irrefutable. Go and have a look at NASA's pics of the Arctic ice cap. Rising sea levels are a reality now but we ain't seen nothing yet. Tiz is also right about the Gulf Stream, the great pump which keeps it moving is failing at the cold end and it is the ocean currents that moderate our weather. We are on the same latitude as Labrador and could quite easily finish up with weather as cold as theirs in winter. The jet stream has moved South and that is affecting our northern weather in the British Isles already. The really depressing fact is that the men who I really trust are deliberately keeping their inoput low key because they have already accepted that what is happening is irreversible and they don't want to cause panic. People can only stand so much bad news.

My own opinion is that the 'red herrings' are the protestations that it isn't happening.  Look at the long term trends demonstrated by the frequency the Thames Barrier has to be deployed. Look at the number of sea defences being abandoned. The North West Passage is on the verge of becoming passable year round. Look at the severe weater events which have broken all time records over the last ten years. We don't need to be scientists to see that things are changing, and it is the speed of change that is the killer.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 12:50
The unpredictability and great variations in conditions also give the game away. Northern Canada has just had temperatures in the 30s Celsius when it should be 8C. We are entering the turbulent phase - hold onto your hats and fasten your seat belts, it could get exciting.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/08/2009 : 05:55
Labrador is having better weather than us at the moment! Just remembered I haven't posted last weeks View article. It's about water courses in Baqrlick again. We will have 1932 all over again one of these days when the town flooded and the weather changes we are seeing make it more likely.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 13/08/2009 : 11:21
On one of the other threads I voiced my doubt about the veracity a few days ago of a BBC report that the typhoon in Taiwan had dropped 200 cm (80 inches) of rain in a only a few hours. I suggested it was a mistake and should have been 200 mm (8 inches). How could clouds ever carry 80 inches of rain?

But whatever the correct figures, in 4 days they had more rain than the UK has ever had in a year. Think about it.

Edited by - Tizer on 13/08/2009 11:44:26


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frankwilk
Senior Member


3975 Posts
Posted - 13/08/2009 : 13:10
Tizer
When I lived in China I used to see very very heavy rain, the same in Singapore. Is it not the same total amount but being dropped in different areas ??



Frank Wilkinson       Once Navy Always Navy Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/08/2009 : 16:40
A super cell ten miles high carries more water than a normal raincloud, this is what makes them so dangerous. The only thing that saves us from them is that there aren't the extended periods of confrontation between cold and waqrm fronts, this is what fuels the super cells which start to rotate and cause hurricanes and typhoons. We actually have more cells in the UK than anywhere else in the world but they are so small we usually don't notice them.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 13/08/2009 : 16:53
Coincidentally; just listening to a man who has published in 'Nature' today. They have been researching hurricanes and have found they can identify the signs of a hurricane from 5,000 years ago. They have identified two main anomalies, one about a thousand years ago and the Little Ice Age about 300 years ago. So they can see a link between peaks of hurricane activity and changes in sea temperature. Not definitive but another pointer.

This same bloke mentioned that in the typhoon Moracot there were localised falls of 2 to 3 METRES of rain!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 27/08/2009 : 16:59
Saw a programme on TV about the use of osmosis to produce pressure between salt water and fresh water which can generate pressures high enough to drive a turbine. The researchers are working on scaling the process up. I didn't know about osmotic power and the thing that puzzles me is where does the energy come from?


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 28/08/2009 : 11:27
Osmosis occurs across a semi-permeable membrane between two solutions or between a solution and a pure solvent (let's say sugar solution and water). If the membrane was not there, then diffusion would occur until the concentration of sugar and water was the same throughout. This diffusion is driven by entropy and occurs by means of random molecular motion.

Now consider when the solution and the water are separated by a semi-permeable membrane, one which lets through water molecules but not sugar molecules. There are more water molecules on the pure water side of the membrane than on the sugar solution side. Entropy will ensure that diffusion of water molecules occurs into the sugar solution until this imbalance is corrected. This causes a difference of pressure across the membrane, known as osmotic pressure.

In reverse osmosis, pressure is applied to a solution (e.g. seawater) to force water molecules back across a semi-permeable membrane. As far as I can see, In the industrial plant used for reverse osmosis there is a waste water stream at high pressureand the energy is recovered by using the pressure to drive a turbine. Most of what I see on the Web is written in patent-speak but there is a better example on this web page.

My impression is that the turbine is driven not by osmotic pressure but by the `waste' energy from applying pressure to the reverse osmosis plant.

 


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Sue
Senior Member


4201 Posts
Posted - 28/08/2009 : 12:25
Oh dear how I hated teaching this. There are so many diffenrent pressures at work  between a cell and its environment . Plant cells trry and resis this fluid motion by osmosis by having rigid cell walls. Animal cells just burst or shrink if they are in the wrong osmotic fliud. That is why animals have to have mechanisms to get rid of excess salt or water. The force generated by this water movemnet against a membrane is quite considerable in cellular terms.

 In plant cells the rigid wall pushes back on the fluid that is trying to increase in volume due to osmosis, making the plant nice and rigid.


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