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Tizer
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21/12/2007
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11:56
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I have uploaded my first picture to the Barlick site I hope to be able to add it in this thread if/when it gets approval from Doc. It is a postcard from the 1940s entitled Winged Heroes and showing Hawker Hurricanes. (The picture is in the next post if you are on page 1 of the thread; if you are on another page you need to go back tp page 1 to see it.)
Please feel free to add your own stories, pictures or comments regarding everything to do with aeroplanes and their pilots, both past and present.
Edited by - Tizer on 11/11/2010 15:11:42
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 30/12/2007 : 16:56
There is a rare book called 'The Forgotten Man. The Mechanic' As told by Ken Lemmons to Jan Riddling and written by her and Cindy Goodman. Self published and the copy I have is 140 of a limited edition of 500. Bob Jacobsen, my old tail-gunner in Northfield gave it to me. It's not the greatest writing in the world but tells the story of the ground crews who sent the bombers of the 100th Group out from Thorpe abbott during the war. He talks about the work they did to keep the planes in the air bit also about how hard it was on them when they lost crews. The 100th bomber group lost half its strength in one raid in 1944. Well worth looking for. The address given in the book (published 1999) is CinJan Productions. 11318 Riddling Road, Little Rock. Arkansas 72206. Wouldn't surprise me if they had a few copies left.......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk  |
Ribble Rouser
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Posted - 30/12/2007 : 18:29
THE FORGOTTEN MAN
Author Unknown
Through the history of world aviation
Many names have come to the fore,
Great deeds of the past in our memory will last
As they're joined by more and more.
When the first man started his labour
in his quest to conquer the sky
He was a designer, mechanic and pilot,
and he built a machine that would fly.
The pilot was everyone's hero
He was bold, he was brave, he was grand,
As he stood by his battered old biplane
With his goggles in his hand.
But for each of our flying heroes
There were thousands little renown,
And these were the men who worked on the planes
But kept their feet on the ground.
We all know the name of Lindbergh,
And we've read of his flight into fame,
But think, if you can, of his maintenance man,
Can you remember his name?
Now, pilots are highly trained people
And wings are not easily won.
But without the work of the maintenance man
Our pilots would march with a gun.
So when you see the mighty jet aircraft
As they mark their path through the air,
The grease-stained man with the wrench in his hand
Is the man who put them there.
Courtesy of the Canadian Aircraft Maintenance Association
http://www.canama.ca/forgotten_man.html
it's bums that count 'ere; not 'ats |
Ribble Rouser
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Posted - 30/12/2007 : 18:41
Stanley
East Anglia Books list one copy of the the book you recommend, in their online catalogue:
http://www.eastangliabooks.com/new_page_32.html
Edited by - Ribble Rouser on 30/12/2007 18:43:03
it's bums that count 'ere; not 'ats |
softsuvner
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Posted - 30/12/2007 : 20:40
RR
Glad to see that you are settling in! Don't worry we all get carried away with our specialist interests (I certainly do). People can pick the bones that they need out of our postings, and it is all there on file if someone else needs it. Forts aren't my thing, but I used to work with a character who was fascinated by all the "Cold War" era secret bunkers that abound in this country. There is actually a group for enthusiasts to which he belongs, called something like the "Cold War Research Group".
In answer to your question, I don't have a Grindlay Peerless, although I used to know a London chap who had one of the sleeve-valve twin models, which I believe is now in a major museum. Grindlay were sidecar manaufacturers in Coventry who, like many after the First War, started assembling their own bikes using bought-in parts including engines. To be honest they weren't great innovators. A famous Brooklands tuner, Bill Lacy, used a nickel-plated Grindlay frame for various record attempts, which may be the bike that you have seen. Like many other similar firms, they were seen off by the Depression.
Tizer
Simplon postcards is excellent, I found it when researching Thames river steamers (a particular interest ). Only problem is, they don't sell postcards!
Cheers
Malcolm
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Ribble Rouser
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Posted - 31/12/2007 : 00:01
Well Malcolm, I believe you are right. I seem to remember reading a story about Bill Lacey eons ago and the name of the bike has remained. I think I am rather affected by the names of certain machines…windows into anther mind set...a linguistic link: Matchless…by name and reputation; Norton…unapproachable; Vincent Rapide; Dominator; Combat Commando; Trophy; Brough Superior…charming. Stark contrast to some of the strange names for motor vehicles now: Starrion; Pajero; Commodore; Lexus…what the?
Cold war bunkers, you say? Let me in em. Yes, there is some amazing information on the web about these sites. Makes you wonder how we endured such a time. Interesting film on that era called The Atomic Café. Highly recommended.
it's bums that count 'ere; not 'ats |
softsuvner
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Posted - 31/12/2007 : 18:13
RR
Loved Atomic Cafe, how they imagined jumping into a ditch and "Duck and Cover" would help in a nuclear attack is beyond belief. Kubrick's Doctor Strangelove may have been a black comedy, but it made a lot of people think about these things.
Motorbike names could support an academic thesis. Norton, Vincent and Brough all come from the name of the founder of the company. George Brough's Dad made bikes in Basford, Nottingham under the trademark "W.E. Brough", and when George decided to make his own upmarket machines, he came up with the name "Brough Superior". At the time his Dad said "does that make my machines Brough Inferiors?"
My favourite story, told to me by a man who was present at the time, is the Triumph Thunderbird. Edward Turner, MD at Triumph was entertaining some American dealers to lunch at a place called the Thunderbird hotel in California. He was so taken with the name and hotel logo (derived from an old Indian sign) that he copied it on the back of a fag packet, and pinched the name and logo for the new Triumph 650 c.c. bike. Ford had to get his permission when they produced the Ford Thunderbird car some years later.
The sting in the tail is that the new Triumph company (whose owner bought the Triumph trademark some years after the old company had died) had to remind Fords of this when he wanted to bring out a new T'Bird a few years ago!
Malcolm
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Ribble Rouser
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Posted - 31/12/2007 : 19:58
Ah yes, dear Strangelove. “Gentlemen! This is outrageous! This is the War Room. You can’t fight in here.” I only have a couple of dozen DVDs on my shelf, but that’s one of them. In my Top 10 cannon of films.
The outstanding feature of Atomic Café for me, was the brilliant marriage of research and editing skills. No narration or subtitles to tell the audience how to think. Just a series of official information and technical films, interspersed with newsreel footage, strung together in such a way that it created a clear narrative and left the audience to (largely) come to its own conclusions. Masterly exposition of the propaganda and the absurdity of it all. And the soundtrack was sublime…mainly Western Swing, for which I have a perverse liking. “When Gen er al Mac Arthur drops the bumb a tomic bomb, twang, twang”. In some ways it reminds me of the methods developed by certain Eastern European dissident writers and philosophers in the 1950s and 60s. They were able to avoid arrest despite severely criticising their political masters. They incorporated every dictate and nuance of the oppressive regimes in their works, down to the finest detail, thereby turning the official party line into a parody of itself, whilst at the same time following it. Clever.
Speaking of Vincents, I was lucky enough to meet the iconic Phil Irving on several occasions, in very convivial circumstances. He was a close friend of a girlfriend’s family, up in Warrandyte Victoria, where he lived. In those days, I was riding Italian V-twins and he always took more than a passing interest in my machines, so we got on quite well. He was a real gentleman and enthusiast, very approachable and still wore those old fashioned round spectacles you see in photographs of him…and he had a real back-room boffin look about him. He seemed to always bite down on his bottom lip, exposing his top teeth in a slight grimace, screw up his nose and squint through those round glasses at everyone and everything, as if assessing the technical challenges before him and doing the sums on the spot.
Well. I declare this completely OFF TOPIC. Where were we?
it's bums that count 'ere; not 'ats |
Ribble Rouser
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Posted - 31/12/2007 : 20:12
Thanks for the story about the Thunderbird. I love the stories behind the stories behind the stories…It's great exploring the way we humans develop meaning and communicate...even in marketing and sales strategies. What an age we live in.
it's bums that count 'ere; not 'ats |
Tizer
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Posted - 02/01/2008 : 11:18
"Matchless…by name and reputation" - RR
And talking of Matchless and reputation, that reminds me of Uncle George who I mentioned at the start of this thread. He had a Matchless twin with upswept exhaust pipes but a guard on only the right side. They said that you could always tell which girls in Blackburn had been out with Uncle George because they had a burn mark on their left leg.
Back to the Gauntlet photo. My Dad enjoyed reading this thread on my computer yesterday and said he got the photo in 1941 when he was with the RAF at Alexandsfontein air station near Kimberley, South Africa, training SAAF armourers. There was an Open Day at the station and he manned one of several tables which had photos put out for people to look at. After it was all over, a few photos had been left behind so he took them rather than let them go into the rubbish.
I wonder whether the photo was in South Africa because of SAAF men who had links with 26 Sqdn RAF? In WWI, SA pilots came to Britain and formed 26 Sqdn RAF, then later returned to SA. This 26 Sqdn RAF continued in the UK (and retained a South African device and Afrikaner motto on its badge although it comprised British men and women). In about 1920 the SAAF was formed and it too had a 26 Sqdn. So perhaps there were links between the two 26 Sqdns? As far as I know, no Gauntlets served in the SAAF and 26 Sqdn RAF did not serve in South Africa.
For further details of SAAF history, see:
http://rapidttp.com/milhist/vol056dt.html
http://www.af.mil.za/about_us/history.html
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softsuvner
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Posted - 02/01/2008 : 11:37
RR
Phil Irving was one of the handful of designers who left his mark on motorcycle development with Vincents and Velocettes. Like most of his kind, a lot of his best ideas were never taken up. I seem to remember that he went on to do great things for the Brabham Formula 1 Team as well. Something about the Aussie "Can Do" attitude. You were lucky to have known such a man.
Matchless were a company going back to the early days of the industry. Sadly, after the original founders (the Collier Brothers) passed on, they were the first to get overambitous, and the first big bike manufacturer to go bust in the 1960's.
Meanwhile back at the Gauntlet........................!
Malcolm
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 02/01/2008 : 18:05
Here's a bit from me memoir.....
"We had another nice camp that summer. In 1979, when I was researching water mills in the Lake District for the DOE I visited Gilpin Mill at Crook. Tommy Lowdon lived there and apart from doing some farming he was the chain saw trainer for the local council. I remember him well because the first time I went there, apart from having my mind blown away by the half collapsed water mill, he surprised me with what was in his shed! He asked me if I liked motor bikes. I told him I liked any machinery but couldn’t say I was a bike man. He opened the door to a small wooden shed and I looked inside. I can still remember the smell as we opened the door. The hut had been soaked with creosote over the years and the sun was shining strongly so the place had that lovely creosote and hot wood smell. It was dark inside and at first all you could see was the dust motes shining in the sunshine as it came in through the single window. After a second or two, as my eyes started to adjust to the gloom, I saw there was a big, black and polished aluminium bike up against the back wall. I had a closer look at it and apart from the big JAP vee twin engine I couldn’t christen it. Tommy told me that the reason for this was that he and his son had designed and built it themselves because they wanted to go to Bonneville and ride on the salt flats! They’d done it as well, they had a crack at some speed record, they didn’t break it but that wasn’t the point, they had achieved their objective just by going there with their own bike."
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
panbiker
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Posted - 03/01/2008 : 19:19
I have just watched on of my Christmas presents, "Lancaster at Coventry", a DVD video diary of the major service of PA474 by Air Atlantique. The DVD is subtitled "From Mickey the Moocher to Phantom of the Ruhr". The 146min DVD was produced by Roger White who filmed the entire process undertaken by Air Atlantique over 7 months between October 2006 to April 2007.
My Son Dan works at Air Atlantique, the company maintain a number of WWII aircraft alongside their main business of air freight. PA474 is probably better known as the "City of Lincoln" Avro Lancaster of the BBMF which has a major overhaul such as this every 6 years.
A good DVD for anyone interested in WWII aircraft maintenance. Fascinating stuff, underlines the major roll undertaken by the mainly unsung groundcrews who maintained these machines on a daily basis throughout the war, major "Shed Culture". The DVD is available through BBMF sales outlets.
Edited by - panbiker on 03/01/2008 19:20:13
Ian |
softsuvner
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Posted - 04/01/2008 : 11:02
Ian
We used to see a lot of Air Atlantique in the old days when our main freight operator (Air Bridge) were overloaded, usually with Ford stuff from Cologne. In those days AA ran the DC3's and the Bristol Freighter (for Instone Air), later we used to get their DC 6s and then the Electras.
I have a relative who is a great supporter of (and lives near the homes of) the two Lancs that normally reside in Lincolnshire. He is currently undergoing some rather nasty therapy, this should make a good present, cheers!
Malcolm
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panbiker
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Posted - 04/01/2008 : 11:15
I thought you might pick up on this Malcolm. The DVD was done by an enthusiast and is in seven monthly chapters. with his own narration. Not too technical, more of a diary of the entire process of the overhaul, a fascinating and easy watch. Going to start on another Christmas present now, "Spitfire" the Biography, by Jonathan Glancey. Should be a good read.
Ian |
Ribble Rouser
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Posted - 07/01/2008 : 18:08
Tizer, Uncle George and the Matchless is a priceless story. Talk about leaving your mark…
Malcolm, Phil Irving was Project Engineer on the Repco Brabham engine, which he derived from a GM Oldsmobile aluminium block V8.
Speaking of shed culture and the Bonneville salt flats, I suppose you have heard of New Zealander Bert Munro and his single minded quest for speed? In case you haven’t, check out the film The World’s Fastest Indian. A kiwi friend of mine’s dad knew him and got me to read One Good Run: The Legend of Burt Munro by Tim Hanna. Extraordinary tale of perseverance, eccentricity and humour. Bert actually lived in the shed with his machines for decades. He had a shelf of broken pistons, rods and other wreckage, which he referred to as his ‘offerings to the God of Speed’, if I recall. After his death, a friend purchased most of the contents of his shed to ensure their preservation. The film is pretty good, but the book is grouse. Both highly recommended for anyone who likes 'tinkering' in the shed. There are some photos and a brief bio at:
http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/features/munro/munro.htm
johnh
it's bums that count 'ere; not 'ats |
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Winged Heroes
