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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted -  25/11/2004  :  14:20
I've always been fascinated by the things people do in their spare time when they can do exactly what they want to do. Men and sheds are a particularly fertile field. Women tend to do their thing in the comfort of the house.



I was delighted to see Andy's picture of the clock movement he has made.







It struck me that we could perhaps start a new topic devoted to spare time skill. So Andy starts it off and my contribution is this:







It's a small steam engine made from scratch and is based on the Stuart 5A but a longer stroke. One of these will drive a 14 foot boat with steam at 250psi. By the way, we don't like to call them models, it's exactly the same construction and materials as a full size engine, just smaller. So come on out there, let's hear about what you make in your spare time. I reckon we could be in for some surprises!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 18/01/2007 : 07:04
Another glorious day of dirty hands....  I bushed the cracked drive pulley and trued it up and then had a look at the worst one, the drive pulley.  When I put it in the lathe and spun it I got a shock, it's dead true!  The problem is that the bore is too big.  I immediately thought about bushing it but then another thought struck me.  I'm going to see how the pulleys sit on a new piece of 3/4 bar.  If they are tight I'm going to scrap the old shaft and make a new one to run in Ball-bearings.  It will be a lot better than the old hardened conical bearings running on points.  Can't wait to get in there.........  Wonderful entertainment!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 19/01/2007 : 06:31
rethink after finding I had no suitable ball-bearings.  I have made plain bearings out of an old valve spindle I had in the scrap box.  Remember the new valve spindle for the crane boiler?  I knew that spindle would come in one day........  The shaft will run like silk and the bearings will be in keeping with 1927 practice.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 20/01/2007 : 17:19
The shaft is back in and the bearings are good but I have done a Johnny, I made them too good and it's a bit much for the motor so I am running it for twenty minutes at a time while I watch TV just to polish the bearings in a bit.  Runs like silk, you can't hear it over the telly.....  Now for the missing handles on the saddle.......


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
TOM PHILLIPS
Steeplejerk


4164 Posts
Posted - 20/01/2007 : 21:20
Well done Stanley,hows the Mandrel,Ive had the pleasure of seeing this tool,and ive heard it running,before the new bearings.its a wonderful piece of kit,keep us up todate Stanley.


"Work,the curse of the drinking class" Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 21/01/2007 : 06:42
Haven't bothered with the mandrel yet, that will be the last job.  I had a bit of a thought last night and went for a furtle in me treasures.....  The little 1/6 hp motor isn't going to be up to the job and this was bothering me.  I remembered that when Newton was running his big lathe in the garage at Vicarage road he had two Horace Green motors on it.  A one horse single phase to drive it and a 1/3 hp to start the big one off because he never bothered to wire it to a proper starter!  I inherited both motors when I bought the Wilson lathe off him and converted it to a 2hp 3phase motor.  Horace Green's at Cononley made the Rolls Royce of electric motors.  The 1hp is as big as a Brooks 10hp and the 1/3 hp is similarly built.  They were always famous for the amount of overload they could take.  I got the 1/3 hp out and plugged it in and it is a bit noisy (not bad) but I reckon that could improve with running as I think it is the centrifugal switch on the windings that's doing it.  I'm going to replace the little motor with that one and there will be no trouble with driving it, double the power, a heavier motor and a slightly smaller pulley (they're all 1400rpm).  So that's today's task.....  pics later.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 21/01/2007 : 11:14

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the Horace Green motor and yes, it's only a third of a horse power!  They built them like battleships.  Horace once told Johnny that the time to worry about overloading them was when the paint blistered on the case!  I've been in the wshop all morning doing what should have been a simple task, changing the very small pulley for the right one.  It turned out to be as fast as a thief.  Would you believe that it's taken me three hours, not to pull it off but to make adjustments to the puller so it would fit.  I have three pullers and a box full of arms for them, all different shapes, I had to do a pick and mix and finished up combining two pullers and making the properly shaped dollies to take the pressure.  However, one thing I have is time and we now have the right pulley on the right motor.....  Now to swap the motors.  How come every motor I use has mounting holes at different centres?




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 21/01/2007 : 19:02

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have a working lathe again and the Horace Green motor is well on top of the job.  Bit noisier than the little one I had on before but not serious and I have an idea it might improve with a bit of running as it hasn't turned for over twenty years.  One little problem was that it ran the wrong way even when I reversed the polarity.  I think I know how to change it but didn't risk it, I am no sparks....  I just turned the motor round and solved the problem that way.  I tried it on the heaviest duty, running the lathe at the fastest speed and it does it with no problem at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Horace Green motor in place.....  The lineshaft is doing about 450 revs.  Just about right.  I'll work the spindle speeds out later but I know they will be OK.  I think I'll make new handles for the saddle and cross slide, they are missing.  Then the mandrel.......




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
TOM PHILLIPS
Steeplejerk


4164 Posts
Posted - 21/01/2007 : 22:27
Stanley,i think your right about the motor getting quieter when its been running for a bit.I once saw a spark swap 2 wires over in a motor to make it turn the other way,it took him all of a minuite,but iam like you iam no spark.


"Work,the curse of the drinking class" Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 22/01/2007 : 08:06
Having s;ept on it, I am going to ring Green's this morning and get the date of the motor off them, I know they keep all the details.  I shall also get two new bearings off them, might as well do the job right. 


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Flutterby
Regular Member


690 Posts
Posted - 22/01/2007 : 19:40
I could do with a shed for all my art stuff! My mum had one and she kept craft stuff and in the sixties we actually bought the contents of a Burnley market stall(Which happened to be two really large bags of assorted lace) I was with her when she bought the lot for a fiver from the stallholder who couldnt face unravelling It!    M onths it took us to unravell, We dyed it , trimmed hankercheifs with it ,lampshade,s were covered. Dresses and shoes , hair accesories were trimmed with it and even Christmas decorations were made with it and my sister still has some. My mother didnt make tame stuff it was really proffesionally done as she  could sew anything but was told at school be a teacher that her children would be wearing rags, later to prove the teacher wrong by winning amajor sewing prize which i have!Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 23/01/2007 : 06:47
Flutters, get one built......!  On the Horace Green front, they have been out of business for about four years now, no way a properly built motor can compete with lighter modern ones.  However, I found Brian Green and he still has the records.  He is going to have a furle and ring me back with the dates and specs of the motors and bearings.  I have two HG motors and will replace the bearings in both of them.  The 1hp motor is a very old one from the number......  I shall crack on with the handles for the cross slide and saddle today.  They involve the old problem, how do you cut and internal square when you have no slotting machine of broach.......   I shall have to get inventive!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 23/01/2007 : 22:21

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The lathe fairy has been busy and we now have a handle on the cross slide with a nice brass and ivory knob on it.  next one is a handle for the saddle traverse spindle......  No news from Brian Green yet, he must be still digging in the archives.




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
TOM PHILLIPS
Steeplejerk


4164 Posts
Posted - 23/01/2007 : 22:44
So how do you cut an internal square,is it a tool like  mortise machine that joiners use for mortise and tenon joints.You'll soon have this job cracked Stanley.


"Work,the curse of the drinking class" Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 24/01/2007 : 06:34
Tom, Manual way is to drill a hole and file it square.  A slotting machine works exactly like a mechanical mortice machine for wood with a single cutter, of course some modern machines are chain morticers, the cutter is rather like a small chin saw blade.  When Hoggarth, the blacksmith at Marton, built the overthrow for Gledstone Hall there were a lot of square holes needed.  The usual way a blacksmith makes a square hole is to punch a hole through the white hot iron and then follow that with a square drift. A similar process is used for making squares and square holes in hand tools, they are forged hot in a former die.  Hoggarth found a different way.  It was a 'drill' made of a square piece of very hard steel and a hardened die with a square hole in it.  A round hole was drilled first in the bar with a diameter equal to the size of the square and then the die plate was clamped over the hole and the hardened bit rotated in the hole driven on a loose universal joint.  The cutter rattled round in the hole, limited by the square die plate and the result was a square hole.  One method I missed above was a cold version of the blacksmith's hot metal and square punch.  This is a broach, a tapered toothed file-like cutter which is dragged through the hole and produces a square.  I shall cheat of course.  The square I need is half inch and I have plenty of old square drive sockets.  i shall make a bush out of one of these and press it into a housing, result, a good square with no filing!


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 24/01/2007 : 17:34
Brian Green has come up trumps.  Both motors were sold to Henry Brown Sons and Pickles.  The 1hp single phase motor (Man. No. 66751)  was tested on 5th July 1950 using various capacitors from 30Microfarads to 90Mf.  It has no centrifugal switch, the capacitor is left in series with the winding while the motor is running.  The heavier the capacitor, the higher the starting torque.  The bearings are a BB LJ inch and one eighth ball bearing at the fan end and the same size LRJ roller bearing at the driving end.  The 1/3hp motor (Man. No. W 35536) was tested on 28th October 1953 and has 2 3/4 LJ ball bearings.  It has no capacitor as it is running now but has a centrifugal switch.  I suspect I am getting away with it because the starting torque is so light.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
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