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Invernahaille
Regular Member


669 Posts
Posted -  26/06/2006  :  04:02







Edited by - Invernahaille on 10 April 2007 04:41:19
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 30/06/2006 : 17:02
I was once delivering cattle to a farm near Troon on the West Coast, the farm doubled as a sawmill producing fencing and I noticed a steam engine stood in the field.  It was the original steam engine from the 'Vital Spark' the Puffer that was used in the Para Handy series.  They had converted the boat to diesel.  This would be about 1970.  They also had an engine out of a Sentinal steam wagon which they had modified to turn it into an air compressor.  Interesting place.  The cattle were good as well, 16 nice in-calf heifers.....


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/07/2006 : 06:43

http://www.the-cruise-specialists.co.uk/index/cruise_lines

try this link for the Columba......




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 01/07/2006 : 08:28
The aforementioned attitude towards engineers marine or otherwise is endemic among the canal boating fraternity, I could probably write a book on that subject alone. One of the most interesting men I came across was on the Isle of Wight ferry Shanklin, I got a tour of his pride and joy which resided in one of the cleanest engine rooms I ever saw. The "lump" could be run on any number of its ten cylinders dependant on the power output required. One of the odd engines I came across was the Napier Deltic with its three crankshafts and Kaufman starter. On HMS Blake my special sea duty station was "Papa" diesel generator, Davy Paxman RPH, a really sweet running unit, when alongside the "wall" the sound of its air starter could scare the crap out of tourists as it exhausted at dock level.


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Ringo
Site Administrator


3793 Posts
Posted - 01/07/2006 : 21:12

We went on a Red Funnel ferry last year, they are miniature cross channel ferries.




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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 07:01
Robert, tell us more about trimming ship......   and tell us what happens if the sea is rough enough to lift the props out of the water......  I remember how surprised I was when I first found out that marine steam engines didn't have flywheels, now there's a complicated subject for you! 


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 09:44
I can tell you what happens when props clear the ogin in "roughers", its bad enough on a single screw ship but when four of them come out its like being shaken rapidly and violently by some giant unseen hand. Hence the benefit of carefull attention to the maintenance of plummer blocks and stern gland and bearings. I have a piccie of a small triple expansion engine on the 1910 battleship HMS Nelson which shows it as having a very modest flywheel, nothing like the 8 CWT lump fitted to Russel Newberry twin pot engines beloved of the canal boat crowd. For the benefit of robert and other MEs my last full time job was building boats for the inland waterways, "from the baseplate to the paint job", An interesting job, but one where it doesn't matter how much you know or what your experience is, the punters always know better. When their props clear the water then you really have a problem!.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 06:37

Some things never change Robert.  During the war a merchant seaman whose ship was sunk was crossed off the payroll when the boat went down.  No sense in paying blokes for sitting in a lifeboat or drowning......

 




Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 18:08

BOAT BUILDING AT LOWER PARK MARINA

In late 1997 I found myself at a loose end because of changes in employment law. It was going to be too difficult for me to stay with John Ingoe at Rochdale Electric Welding working on boilers and I was fed up with travelling 35 miles each way anyway. I looked round and found that there was casual work at LPM helping Peter Thompson to build narrowboats. I told them I was not a welder but could stick bits of metal together and they were fool enough to take me on. The pay wasn’t good but the work was interesting and I helped Peter with a couple of boats.

The first was a boat for Ian and Margaret Evans and they were good customers, they came across every now and again, made clear decisions and left Peter and me alone. We didn’t fit the boat out but took it right up to that point, including painting, and had a very enjoyable maiden voyage down the cut to a winding hole and back. I forget what the engine was but it was an old English make and Ian got all the spares he needed from India where they still build the engines on licence.

It was very enjoyable and I learned a lot, boat building was completely outside my experience. Peter knew his job and the basic design we were using was the same as Doug Moore used when he was building boats at Lower Park. They were very high standard, Peter will tell us the plate thicknesses, but they were heavy and built to last. Probably too good actually because people don’t want to pay for that sort of quality when they can buy cheaper boats but using pre-formed sections and lighter metal. I don’t doubt Peter could have done that and competed but he was after quality.

I remembered all this the other day when I was rooting about in a drawer for a light fitting and underneath everything at the back I found a sighting telescope from a 2 pounder anti-tank gun. Now you might well ask what this has to do with building boats….. I was watching Peter welding the stern tube into a boat one day and we were talking about the problems caused by expansion and contraction and getting the tube perfectly lined up level and central. Anyone who has welded metal at this thickness knows how contraction in the welds can alter dimensions. Being a fresh eye on the job I said to Peter that what we really needed was a sighting telescope in a bush that exactly fitted the stern tube. If we set a target up dead level and central in the bow of the boat we could easily check the alignment after every run of weld. I told him I had a sighting ‘scope and I’d find it and make a bush. The bottom line is that I had to disappoint him because I could never find it. Funny how things turn up….. if you ever do another Peter give me a shout and I’ll make you a bush for it.

Peter alluded to the difficulties with some customers. I saw a bit of this with one boat we built and sympathise with him. The owner was never off our backs and everything was changed each time he came, even the paint job.

This all fell on Peter’s back and the poor bugger was having nightmares about it. I learned exactly what he had been suffering when the manager of the yard let slip to the owner that I had been known to shape a bit of metal every now and again. He came to me and told me that he didn’t want the modern throttle controls for the Gardner engine we were fitting for him, he wanted the old ‘speed wheel’ with a hand wheel. I did some rough drawings of the proposed gear and linkage which included a square thread running in a captive sleeve so that the hand wheel was always in the same plane, only the linkage moved. This included the bell crank and the connections to the governor on the engine, standard Gardner practice and I had dealt with these engines for years.

I went away and made the gear and Peter and I fitted it. A tidy job and it looked the part as well, I found an old CI valve handwheel that was just right. Good job well done, all tickety boo as Peter said. That was until the owner came down and told me I had got it all wrong! I asked him why and he said it took too many turns of the wheel to open the engine flat out for starting. I pointed out to him that it was part of the design of the Gardner engine that there was no connection between the linkage and the throttle, it only controlled the governor and that the pump rod on the Gardner injector pump was always fully forward when the governor was stationary. In other words, a Gardner is always at full throttle when it is started and drops back to the speed set by the speed wheel and the governor once it is started. Another refinement was that as the governor linkage also controlled the automatic advance and retard on the pump drive, if started with the speed wheel set at idle the engine was fully retarded as well. Full throttle and retarded, the ideal starting conditions, Gardners had worked all this out decades before. Would he have it? Would he heck, but I had been paid for this as a private job by the owner and he was up against a bit of a problem with me as I had more leverage than Peter. I told him that I had made what he asked for and made it well, all the bell cranks and linkages were bushed with bronze, a lovely job and if he didn’t like it he’d better make himself another one. I heard later that he’d ripped the whole lot out and done it differently, more fool him I say!

I went off to America and did interesting things like drive up Route 66 from Los Angeles to St Louis and never gave it another thought. Peter had the bloke to deal with until the launch and I have no doubt he was very glad to see the boat disappear down the cut. A great shame because doing a job like that should be a joy but the bloke spoiled it completely for both of us.

SCG/03 July 2006

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Evans boat on the day we had the maiden Voyage.  Lovely job and good owners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another good boat and a nice paint job......  Not such a happy job building it though......




Stanley Challenger Graham




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Shane
Regular Member


170 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 23:41
 Stanley, can you upload a picture of what a sighting telescope from a 2 pounder anti-tank gun looks like please. I have what looks like a WWII right-angled piece of a metal and brass telescope - I was told it was from a tank but I'm not so sure now?

Cheers Shane


Never use money to measure wealth. Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 05:27

Shane, here's the pic.  I was told this was from a 2 Pounder and always assumed this was correct because it is the same design as the ones I was familiar with off the 17 Pounder but smaller.  They were slid into a tube mounting on the gusight, located by a lug on the tube which coincided with a slot on the sight and the 17 pdr ones had a rubber eye cup.  The idea was that when the gun wasn't actually in use the telescope was taken off the gun and kept in a padded box for protection.  However, now I've cleaned the scope I'm not too sure because it hasn't got the War Office broad arrow on it.  The scope is marked: 'TELESCOPE M46A2.  STOCK NUMBER 7578362. SERIAL NO. 24687671421'

 

 

 

 

 

 




Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 16:09
Thank you Stanley, your kind words are much appreciated. The first boat shown above is actualy the "William J" owned by Barry and Anne Dawber, built by myself and Simon when Doug Moore was still the MD, shown there in its original colour scheme, since repainted, See photos elsewhere on this site, Built in Barlick. I will post a piccie of Mr and Mrs Evans boat when I find it, the engine was a Ruston Hornsby also built in India. The second boat is of course the "Red Admiral", never to be forgotten. Tomorrow I will add a piece about what happened after the fiasco with the speed wheel. How can you deal with a man who won't let you start his engine because it might blow up!?. More tomorrow, thanks again. Thomo.


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 17:43
I'll look forward to that P.  I reckon that bloke had a serious problem and shouldn't have been allowed out in the community.....  I can still remember how depressed he made you and I thought it was such a shame that a good experience was spoiled.


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
Shane
Regular Member


170 Posts
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 23:08
Stanley, thanks for putting up the image of the sighting telescope . . . it is very different to what I imagined and nothing like the periscope-like  sighting that I have?  I'll have to get a image taken of mine and then maybe someone can identify it?

Cheers Shane



Never use money to measure wealth. Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 05/07/2006 : 05:11
If it's a periscope sight it could easily be off a tank.  Remember the gunlayer was seaeted lower and had the .5 inch BSA machine gun as well calibrated to zero exactly like the main armament.  The idea was you used a burst of tracer to check your aim.  Bit like a laser sight but more intrusive!


Stanley Challenger Graham




Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 05/07/2006 : 15:50

"That Boat" and its owner. First a bit about the Canal fraternity: Two main groups of these, Enthusiasts, and the rest. The rest are people who are happy to be afloat whatever their circumstances and type or condition of vessel, At the head of the enthusiasts come the Hyper-Traditionalists, The rivet counters, the "Josher" brigade and the engine exhaust note fetishists. Our man, my truculent customer, was one of these. He was a time served carpenter and ex. County Council Clerk of works, self employed in recent years as a fitter out of boats. When he ordered "That Boat!" I knew of him, but was unaware of his manic approach to his main interest. And this was to be no ordinary boat. Standard better class boats are of 10. 06. 04. construction, that is 10mm bottom plate, 6mm hull sides and 4mm cabin, I started with a 12mm base plate. The engine was to be a rebuilt 1937 3 cylinder Gardiner which had been lovingly restored by an ex Gardiner employee at Sheffield. The main build of the shell went fairly amicably despite the customers daily presence. The engine was fitted before the roof went on for logistical reasons, I then had to encase it in thick ply to protect it during the rest of construction. In time we arrived at the stage when the main job was done and the finishing process began. Thus entered our Stanley with his beautifully made speedwheel throttle device which met approval all round. I fitted this device to the boat and connected it to the engine, Then it all started. Now a speedwheel is a traditional throttle, a small handwheel located just under the edge of the after hatch above the steering step, this wheel turns a shaft to a point above the engine, at this point the rotary movement is converted through app, 90 degrees to an up and down motion and the lower end is connected to the engine throttle linkage, Stanleys version of this was to change to motion direction at source, right behind the handwheel. One of this type of enthusiasts chief source of pleasure when moored up somewhere is to stand by his engine with the side doors open and demonstrate to anyone available the beauty of his engine and how by hand turning the shaft above his head can thus produce the 6 RPM Thump, Thump that swells the breast of this breed. My version of all of this would be to have a far more efficient and cheaper modern engine whith a sound system linked to the throttle!. So there you are Stan, You nearly spoilt his fun. At this time the powers that be in the yard had taken on a new manager whos knowledge of boats was based on the fact that he lived on one, his mechanical knowledge having been gained at a granular fertilizer plant near Warrington. To him fell the task of fitting all the plumbing to the engine, 14 days work replaced in its entirety by myself shortly after the customer had had words with the management, At length this 16 ton beast was launched and ballasted watered and fuelled. Time at last for trials. Oh no. Our man had been to an engine exibition, and the main event, a restored Gardiner mounted on a trailer had blown up on starting and it transpired that one of its cylinder liners had developed porosity and instead of a fuel mix attop the piston there was coolant. He had convinced himself that his engine might do the same, thus in a right old state he went home, taking with him those bits which precluded us having a go in his absence. Several weeks later the man from sheffield came and ceremoniously started the engine, no problem, except that he wasn't amused about having to come so far to push a button. The finished boat is excellent and I should be proud but my blood pressure still goes up when I think of 10 months of his "expert guidance" See "ex-spert" ex is has been, spurt is drip under pressure!.




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