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Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
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 Posted -
22/12/2010
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16:17
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It seems that many people are experiencing problems with their central heating and drainage systems - all down to the unusual icy weather conditions. My plumber says he's not stopped for several days and has spent most of the time clearing ice from inside the outlet pipes of his customers (Jonathan Greenbank, BTW - exceptionally good service from him over the past few months).
Our heating packed in this morning but a quick call to Johnny sorted it out - he said he'd come round but I asked if I could do it myself to save him the bother. He described the procedure and I was able to get the heat back on in no time. However, bless him, he called round anyway just to make sure. What a guy!
So before you waste time trying to unblock the sink (as one of my clients did, flooding her kitchen in the process) just go outside and warm up the pipes, undo a joint or two (the plastic variety, not the herbal, of course) and a long pellet of ice will come shooting out in a rather satisfactory manner.
Do not waste this ice, however - it adds a festive flavour to a nice G&T...
Johnny says that in Europe all pipes must be inside or at least not exposed, and he wouldn't be surprised if UK regulations are changed following this winter's conditions.
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pluggy
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Posted - 22/12/2010 : 17:07
As to the festive flavour with the G&T, it kind of depends on what the last thing down the sink was before it froze. 
Need computer work ?
"http://www.stsr.co.uk" 
Pluggy's Household Monitor  |
Bradders
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Posted - 22/12/2010 : 18:17
.......and don't mention Herbal joints, even in jest !!!
BRADDERS BLUESINGER |
panbiker
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Posted - 22/12/2010 : 19:47
My system just fixed today by the BG man. Condensate pipe frozen. Common problem with this type of boiler. Ours has an unusually long run due to where the boiler is situated. Part of the piping runs behind our kitchen units against an outside wall and then continues for about 3M outside in 1.25" piping. This is the bit that normally freezes up and is relatively easy to sort out. The continued sub zero temps have made their way into the internal piping on this occasion which as it is at the moment is inacsessible which has made a workaround for the short term nescessary. BG man cut the condensate pipe under the boiler and it now runs into a bucket as a temporary measure to ensure the boiler will continue to operate. Long term solution is to install an electrical trace heating system with thermostat to ensure that the pipe always runs frost free. BG man says they have repaired 20,000 or so, majority with similar problems. I think he said he was on his 12th today.
Ian |
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 06:00
Brad, nowt wrong with smoking herbs, my favourite is Condor Green and they can't touch you for it!
Heather, you're quite right and the plastic joints in the waste piping come apart easily, any probs, just pour hot water on them from the kettle. Ian, long condensate pipes are useless in weather like this. I'm lucky, a short insulated pipe into the Waste stack. BG installation and they got it right. I've never clearly understood why waste pipes in general aren't piped direct into the soil stack under the lavatory, overflows as well. Can't see what the objection would be and keeps all the pipes inside the house. Might be an answer for you Ian, can't see anyone taking you to court for it! After all, they are all piped into that system in the end and that satisfies the regulations.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Another
Traycle Mine Overseer
6250 Posts
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 08:01
Bradders I have amended your post and Herb I have removed yours.
I'm fed up of all the sniping going on and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I have appealed elsewhere for some respect and decorum - this applies to all posts on all topics. Nolic
" I'm a self made man who worships his creator"  |
pluggy
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 08:51
Lets hear it for non condensing boilers......
It packed up earlier in the year and it was a toss up between replacing it and repairing it. The expense of getting a drain to where the boiler is sited tilted it in favour of repairing it. Its a late model non condenser so the efficiency savings by changing it would be small.
Need computer work ?
"http://www.stsr.co.uk"
Pluggy's Household Monitor |
Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 09:40
quote:
Another wrote:
Bradders I have amended your post and Herb I have removed yours.
I'm fed up of all the sniping going on and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I have appealed elsewhere for some respect and decorum - this applies to all posts on all topics. Nolic
How on earth can a topic about boilers generate bad comments?
Tiz the season of goodwill so let's put it into practice.
Life's too precious - as we have experienced in our family today with a certain situation. If you've nothing more important in your life to do than snipe, please keep it to yourself, OK?
Thank you Nolic for your prompt attention. |
frankwilk
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 10:57
How on earth can a topic about boilers generate bad comments?
You have never had to deal with British Gas, by the way are you in your house now ???
Edited by - frankwilk on 26/12/2010 09:51:19 AM
Frank Wilkinson Once Navy Always Navy |
Tizer
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 11:17
It's my leaking roof that taxes my patience (and energy) at the moment. The roof has a lead valley that was put in place in the days when you didn't get any significant snow here in this part of the the UK. Now the valley is full of snow and as it thaws water leaks through gaps that it wouldn't normally get to. The one bit of luck is that the main leak is over the bathroom and the water is dripping into the bath!
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panbiker
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 12:06
Of course your'e right about the length of the pipe being the main cause Stanley. Ours is a result of how the kitchen is orientated in relation to the rest of the house.. My kitchen is built right across the front of the house as opposed to the normal extension out to the street with the yard at the side, its the only on on the row with this arrangement. This gives the yard a fantastic aspect in summer as it catches the sun all day. Sal has turned the back yard into plant pot, window box and hanging basket heaven. From a condensing boiler point of view it's bad news as we don't have an outside wall that we can put the boiler on unless it was to vent into next doors yard which is not allowed in the regs.
It was not a problem for my previous boiler which was installed at the top of the cellar under the stairs. This is the most logical place for the boiler as the pipework can go straight upstairs into the bathroom which is built on top of half of the kitchen and then along the landing and into the bedrooms and the loft conversion. The problems that are being experienced on a large scale now with frozen condensate pipes were never envisaged for this country which normally has quite temparate winters compared to lots of others. It is only the prolonged sub zero temperatures that have created the effect albeit a very large effec. Folk who have short condensate runs are OK as well in the main although the BG man did say that the main problems they are having to deal with now are with sections of internal pipe being frozen.
My ultimate fix will be to heat the pipe with a trace system although I will have to take out a wall full of units to get at the pipework. That will be a summer job I think and once completed will probably guarantee that we will never have another bad winter for years, (don't hold your breath on that one though)!
Sorry to hear about your leaky roof Tiz I hope you can get that one sorted out.
I seem to pick up from various threads that quite a few people have serious downers on British Gas as well as Telecom (or whatever they call themselves these days). I would just like to say that my recent and not so recent experiences of both of these organisations, they are, in the main, without fault in my experience. I would actually go as far as to say that I have always received excellent service from both. Maybe I'm lucky or is it the fact that as my own background is in servicing I can empathise better with the guys that turn up to sort out my problems and get a better service as a result?
Edited by - panbiker on 23/12/2010 12:17:58
Ian |
Callunna
Revolving Grey Blob
3044 Posts
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 12:52
Our pipe is quite a short run but even so, a slow drip can build up into solid ice in this weather. During a normal winter it wouldn't get a chance to freeze so much. I'm sure it won't be long before the European regulations are applied to the UK. However, I'm thinking of temporarily lagging the pipes to avoid it happening again.
Pluggy - I have no real idea of what the difference is between condensing and non-condensing except that the former is supposed to be more efficient and therefore better for my purse and the environment.
We could have got £300 towards a new boiler via a Pendle Council scheme, but our plumber told us that the system they insist on you using is very temperamental. It might have all the latest electronic gadgetry and allow you to set up various programmes (even Channel 5?) but in practical terms it causes many problems/call-outs. I know someone who had such a system installed and yes, they have had difficulties with it.
Ours is an AAA-rated condensing and something else (plumbing is not one of my specialist subjects) type and has a very simple analogue timer with just the features you need. We have thermostat controls on each rad plus a general thermostat in the kitchen and dials on the boiler itself which gives us lots of flexibility. The problem was entirely due to adverse weather conditions and one that even I could remedy.
As for the deleted comments aspect of this thread, I never saw them so I don't know what happened. Frank's point about discussion/free speech etc is valid, but for heaven's sake this is all about boilers! I really thought I was safe starting it and thought it might be a useful topic for people to share, because I've heard of so many folk having problems at the moment.
I'm tempted to start a topic entitled "Peace, Love and Understanding" just to see how long it takes before it turns into a bunfight... |
moh
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 15:49
Go on then H
Say only a little but say it well |
Tizer
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 15:50
Heather, this web page has some diagrams and brief explanations that might help. I can't claim any real knowledge on boilers but it seems like the condensing boiler just recovers heat from the flue gases and uses that heat to pre-warm the water going into the boiler. So it's more efficient than a standard boiler which wastes a lot of heat in the flue gases going up the chimney.
Thanks for starting a useful thread and never mind those who might mess it up. Perhaps we should have a special thread for them called `The Bearpit' and just let them tear each other to pieces!
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BenR
Regular Member
200 Posts
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Posted - 23/12/2010 : 17:08
The problem with older condensing boilers is the way they release the condensate in a steady trickle, which freezes in the pipes. I'm amazed that the boiler manufacturers failed to anticipate this.
More recently built boilers have a syphon so they store up the condensate and release it in rushes. Somebody could get rich inventing a retro-fit syphon.
Our new boiler also has its condensate drain connected to a kitchen waste pipe, inside the house.
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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart
36804 Posts
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Posted - 24/12/2010 : 07:06
Tiz, I noticed water on the outside of the house yesterday and it's coming from the eaves troughing. Same problem as you even with new troughing but thankfully outside the house. You reminded me of the problems with lead valley gutters during and after WW2, many of them were punctured by falling shrapnel form ack ack shells.
Ian, like you I have never had anything but superb service from BG and BT. It must be the luck of the draw but I also think there is a benefit in sticking with the same service provider. Many say this doesn't count these days but I can't help thinking that when they log onto my account and see a twenty year history on the servicing account it's worth something. (They also give old farts like me a better deal. Look up the tarriff named 'Essentials', not easy to gind but if you qualify by age or poverty well worth the effort. I don't pay the last price rise on gas and electricity until April next year. They did the same last year as well, a considerable saving.)
Remember me taking the tap handle off the hot water tap in the kitchen? Brilliant saving and it is still off but after reading this thread yesterday I thought that it would be a good idea to see if having standing water in the pipe for over twelve months was getting me into trouble so I put the handle on the tap and ran some hot water through it. No problems because the pipework is inside but at least it scratched an itch!
As for condensing boilers. Plugs is right, the cost can be excessive if the existing boiler is reasonably efficient but once you have one of the latest boilers they really are incredibly efficient. My experience with them is that they give least trouble if they are serviced by fitters who have been properly trained. In the early days BG were lax in this area but they are far better now and touch wood, no problems at all. I'm on their service contract so even if there is a fault, the £15 (approx.) I pay each month gives me peace of mind, it doesn't matter what the fault is, they do it free and quickly.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Barlick View
stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk |
Bust boilers and blocked pipes
