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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted -  21/12/2007  :  11:56
I have uploaded my first picture to the Barlick site I hope to be able to add it in this thread if/when it gets approval from Doc. It is a postcard from the 1940s entitled Winged Heroes and showing Hawker Hurricanes. (The picture is in the next post if you are on page 1 of the thread; if you are on another page you need to go back tp page 1 to see it.)

Please feel free to add your own stories, pictures or comments regarding everything to do with aeroplanes and their pilots, both past and present.

Edited by - Tizer on 11/11/2010 15:11:42


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catgate
Senior Member


1764 Posts
Posted - 30/10/2010 : 15:39


quote:
Stanley wrote:
Incredible and stupid!

Not as incredible and stupid as you think. Have you never heard of safety.

The reason for being all linked together was so that if one of them should suffer a serious failure, the others would support it and consequently it would not fall on the crowd below.

They had all been boy scouts, and their motto was "Be Prepared".  Unlike the Girl Guides whos motto was "Take them unawares".


Every silver lining has a cloud.


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 30/10/2010 : 16:39
The wikipedia article on Operation Silverplate has further information on the numbers of B29's eventually modified for larger payloads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverplate

My previous post referred to the initial effort put in to develop a suitable platform based on an American design. It beggars belief really that they should put so much effort and expense into a project at that stage of the war when a perfectly good aircraft already existed. Would the availability of unlimited resources and the requirement of national pride actually outweigh any requirement to end the war earlier? It's all conjecture of course but the historical evidence does suggest that it was possible.

Edited by - panbiker on 30/10/2010 16:40:19


Ian Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 04:35
Ian. I've been told the same story by old USAF flyers. Bob Jacobsen (33 missions with 100th Bomber Group at Diss) told me that they had a lot of respect for the Lancasters, in his case the tail-gunner's turret. He said the Lancy's was far better than his! He was also surprised when I told him that the reason why the 'Little Friend' Mustangs suddenly had the capacity to accompany them all the way to the target was because they had fitted Merlin engines in them. He said that nobody had ever told them and they were too busy doing their own job to enquire. Sounds like the same syndrome, 'American is best'. I remember how surprised I was when I read years ago about Grand Slam and it was stated that the reason why the US never used that useful technology was because they hadn't a plane capable of carrying a ten ton bomb. Perhaps they also didn't want to use a British bomb.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 10:37
Ian, very interesting about the Silverplate B-29s, and strange to think that the RAF had to borrow B-29s (`Washingtons') in the early 1950s to fill in while we waited for our jet  V-bombers to be built. (When I wrote the bit about the Washingtons on Thomo's thread you had posted saying you were mentioning B-29s here, but at the time I couldn't find it which is why I didn't cross-ref it there - not ignoring you, honest!)


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 16:23
Could it have been the ceiling height of the B29 and it's pressurised hull that gave it the edge in the 50's for nuclear deterrent duty during the cold war? We were supporting American policy throughout this period. Our airbases were seen as forward launch positions as was the entire Island and was targetted as such by the former USSR. I think the arrangement was heavily based on lend-lease debt. I know that Greenham Common airbase was seen as American Territory as is the ground at Menwith Hill. The Royal Navy guys who used to live up there and operate the U.L.F radio systems for submarine communication were different all together. We had to jump through hoops to visit the Amateur Radio lads on the U.S. base at Menwith but were given a full tour of the R.N. Station just down the road and an explanation of how it all worked when we visited there.


Ian Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 06:56
Ian, I used to have an Anerican friend who worked at Menwith as an Arabic and Russian linguist. He once told me it was surreal sitting on a Yorkshire moor listening to the radio Taxies in Omsk! He was working for an organisation that didn't officially exist, was it the NSA? He eventually got out but said that was harder than getting in in the first place! Look up Echelon as well....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29

 


Stanley Challenger Graham




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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 10:30
I think that one of the problems with dealing with the Americans is that they have been brought up to believe that they are the best, and thus everything that they produce has to be the best. You cannot blame them for promoting their own products and ideas but they have a very long record of not always getting it right. They are also very patriotic when it comes to military hardware and will often go to great and sometimes devious lengths to promote their own product even when a foreign equivalent has been proved to be superior. Our own airline "British Airways" buy large numbers of their aircraft from the US and there is nothing wrong with that, but BA often insist on these aircraft being fitted with our own Rolls Royce engines instead of the usual General Electric or Pratt and Whitney power plants, and whilst the latter are quite good they do not quite match the quality of the RR equivalent in terms of reliability, performance and eco friendliness. Bravo BA.


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 15:22
RAF Memorial Flight

*Click the picture for a larger image*

Wonderful timing for Armistice Day. The postman delivered a large white cardboard tube....containing this print of a photograph of the RAF Memorial Flight. The print was offered for purchase by a newspaper and Tripps was kind enough to send me the details so that I could buy a copy. Once framed it will be one of my father's Christmas presents. He will enjoy the aircraft and the signatures that surround the picture.

The original is part of the Jim Dooley Collection and you can buy full-price prints from the Collection at various sizes from this web page. Other Collections and carsd & prints are available on this web page. The web site belongs to Armed Forces Art UK, the Official Publishers  for the Ministry of Defence (RAF). The web site states: "On this website you will find original photographs from the archive collections of RAF Hendon and the RAF Historical Branch at Northolt dating back to 1936. Our more recent colour collection of photographs have been taken by our resident photographer Mr Jim Dooley. Jim specializes in photographs of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight. We also have a range of Aviation Artists whose work we are publishing as part of our future collections. Robin Smith, Stephen Brown and the late Frank Wootton are fantastic artists of aviation scenes."

Thanks Tripps!

Edited by - Tizer on 11/11/2010 15:44:41


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Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 07:40
Wonderful Pic.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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tripps
Senior Member


1404 Posts
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 14:16
You're welcome - glad you're pleased with it. Dare we mention it was from the Daily M**l or will it upset  the "comrades"?    Smile  


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 15:25
Steady on Tripps! whether it upsets the comrades or not, it is a fact that the Daily Mail has been involved with aviation since the birth of flight.


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 16:19
Yes, and part of the money raised goes to...was it the Memorial Flight?


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 16:41
I dont know about that Tizer, but Rolls Royce, BAE Systems and Land Rover certainly do.


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 16:45
When you visit R.A.F. Conningsby to see the BBMF in situ you assemble for the hangar tour in the visitor centre. I saw a lot of Jim's photographic prints for sale, all are exceptional, I could have spent a fortune on them but I went down on the bike which probably saved my wallet from a battering. Hopefully the sales will boost the funds for the flight. The BBMF is wholey supported by public subscription and the marketing items it sells from base and when out on the road at displays. A good posting Peter for remembrance week. Your dad will be "made up".


Ian Go to Top of Page
Stanley
Local Historian & Old Fart


36804 Posts
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 07:04
Daily Mail. Yes, and supported Hitler pre WW2 as well.

David just to make it clear, Comrade Nolic Thegn and I  are Comrades by association of membership of OFAL. Nothing to do with politics.  I couldn't care less where a good pic comes from.


Stanley Challenger Graham




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stanley at barnoldswick.freeserve.co.uk Go to Top of Page
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