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Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted -  01/10/2011  :  02:08
Hi,

My grandfather, Egar Harrison, (John William, James T., John, Elisha) was born in Barnoldswick in 1909.   He married Sarah Ellen Manley whose mother was Harriet Cowgill.  Thanks to the information on this site I have been able to identify Harriet's brother, Thomas and his wife, Florrie, in a photo with my mother.  Just the start, I'm sure. Great Stuff!

 

 

 

 


Debbt
(Researching Harrison, Manley, Cowgill and Breward)
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BarryS
New Member


15 Posts
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 17:47
Here is the information I have on Thomas Manley's children. Thomas married Rebecca Clegg 31.8.1828 at Clitheroe. There were three children Matthew bapt 4.1.1829 later a provisions merchant in Burnley, Eleanor bapt 9.2.1834 who married William Tee (1854) and Thomas bapt 28.8.1836 who as an adult moved to Manchester.  Rebecca died 1838. Thomas married Catherine Ridehalgh 22.12.1845 (father Robert Ridehalgh a Weaver of White Walls Great Marsden) at St Batholomews Church , Colne. There were two children of this marriage Ann for whom I have no date of birth or christening date and Wiliam born 1848. William is the only one of the children who did not survive into adulthood. He died aged 14.
Catherine Manley died aged 68 in 1876 (the burial date is given as 3.2.1876). She is buried at St John's, Great Marsden. She saw out her final years with Eleazer and Ann. 

Eleazer Manley son of Matthew Manley Thomas Snr's brother wrote at least two series' of articles for The Nelson Leader/Colne Times. The first in 1890 was called 'Nelson its Rise and Progress' and the second in 1910 was called 'Memories of Nelson 60 years ago' In his introduction to the second series of articles Eleazer writes that he had become dissatisfied with the first after discovering that peoples memories of events had not been quite what he had been led to believe. In the early 1960's whilst putting together her book about the Manley and Hillary familes for the Nelson and Colne Historical Society  'Tales of the Nelson Inn' my Great Aunt Victoria Wilson wrote the lot out by long hand all 26 articles. I have recently been able to read these and they have given me a lot of new information about the Manley's.

Debbt is right about the childrens business dealings. The whole thing seems to have been run by Matthew from his office in Burnley. Over the years following their father's death the Manley's sold off sections of the land they had inherited as Nelson developed making a small fortune in the process. Even on the 1871 census Ann is referred to as having her 'own means' and this continued throughout the century.  

BarryS


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Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted - 06/10/2011 : 00:40
Thanks, BarryS.

Your information re Thomas's children and marriages is pretty much what I have gleaned but thank you for the confirmation. 

 Do you think you might publish a book of your Aunt's writings (maybe combined with Eleazers).  I, for one, would love to buy a copy.

In the interim does anyone know what the following court case might have been about.

 

 "Scope and Content:  Cause number:  1867 M96.  

Short title:  Manley v Manley

Documents: Bill, Interrogatores

Plaintiffs:  Eleazer Manley and Ann Manley, his wife.

Defendants:  Matthew Manley, Catherine Manley widow, William Tee, Eleanah Tee his wife, Thomas Manley, George Eastwood, George Pomfret and Peter Pickup.

Provincial solicitors employed in Lancashire 

Covering dates:  1867"

 

Source:  National Archives, Kew. 

 

 


Debbt
(Researching Harrison, Manley, Cowgill and Breward) Go to Top of Page
Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 06:31
Me again,  

 BarryS, I have a record of a Thomas Manly (sic.) aged 49 being buried in 1851 (LOP records).  He was living at Bradley  at the time of his death.  I assumed this was my guy but note you said Thomas died in 1849.  Have I got the wrong record.  

 


Debbt
(Researching Harrison, Manley, Cowgill and Breward) Go to Top of Page
wendyf
Senior Member


1439 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 08:04
Debbt, I had a look for items about the Manley v Manley court case in the local newspapers. (British Library's 19th Century Newspaper Collection, available online free for Lancashire library card holders.)
I couldn't find anything relevant, though there was a mention of George Pomfret being suspended from the Stock Market in 1867.


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Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 08:34
Wow,  I'm overwhelmed.  What a kind thing to do.  Thank you so very much. I'll look around on the web and see if I can find anything that might be related.

Thanks again,

 

 


Debbt
(Researching Harrison, Manley, Cowgill and Breward) Go to Top of Page
wendyf
Senior Member


1439 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 11:40
It's no trouble at all Debbt, I'm always looking for an excuse to look at the old newspapers. It's a great resource, which we are lucky to be able to use for free. Have a look here.


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BarryS
New Member


15 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 11:45
I was hoping to rehabilitate Eleazer Manley's memory. Family history is like this. When you think you have got to the end of the story or can get no furher there is a new lead.  I have not seen this referance to Eleazer before. The puzzle deepens. 

The Manleys never liked working for others. They always liked the independance that self employment gave them. So it was with Eleazer. In about 1856 he was apprenticed to a cotton mill as a clerk but from 1863 he was working for Blackwood and Son's of Burnley as a Solicitors Clerk. In 1867 he married his cousin Ann Manley, and first set up in business on Manchester Road, Nelson as an Ironmonger. 

Eleazer's business grew when he built and moved to the building that Althams Travel Agency now have. He seems to have sold it in about 1884 and retired to Southport but the census clearly shows he had returned to working as a clerk by 1891. Perhaps the money had run out.

He seems never to have missed what he saw as a business opportunity. In 1870 when his father died he was appointed to oversee the sale of the estate. In her book my Great Aunt writes 'Sarah Ann (his sister) got £800. Margaret and Oates got much less. Eleazer got thousands!'. How did he do this? First he bought up large sections of the land himself (later sellng it at a profit) and secondly it looks as if he bought out his his brother's share and later  his sister Margeret's share. He had valued the property and land at £1000 on the letters of administration. It sold for at least £3200 and possibly £4000 about £180,000 in todays money. Oates may have got as little as £100. This may have caused a rift between Oates and Eleazer when the final figure was revealed though I have not been able to prove it. In 'Memories of Nelson 60 years ago' he goes some way to explaining why he valued the Inn and the other property at just £1000. He says the Temperance Movement was building to its peak and pubs were closing or being forced to close so he believed the value had fallen.

In that Eleazer had trained as a solicitors clerk he would have had no problem presenting his own case at minimal cost to him. At this time 1867 his wife's income from her inheritance would have been critical. So if he was unhappy with his wife's settlement from Thomas Manley's Estate or what the other benificiaries were doing this could have been what it was about. However what George Eastwood, George Pomfret and Peter Pickup are doing here I do not know.  To resolve the issue we would need to see the documents. What I can say here is really just speculation based on what I know about the family at that time.

I will reply to Debbt's other questions shortly.

BarryS



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Sunray10
Regular Member


557 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 18:17
The intrigue continues. Thanks to BarryS, Debbt and Wendy.


R.Spencer. Go to Top of Page
Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 02:28
Hi all,

Here is a copy of something from the London Gazette re Eleazer's business.

 The London Gazette (December 18th, 1883).
" Notice is hereby given, that the partnership heretofore subsisting between us the undersigned, Eleazer Manley and Joseph Hartley, carrying on business at Nelson in the County of lancaster, as Ironmongers, under the style of Manley and Hartley, has this day been dissolved by mutual consent. All Debts due to or owing by the partnership will be received and paid by the said Joseph Hartley who alone will continue to carry on the business - Dated this 13th day of December, 1883."

I think you might be right about Eleazer's need for independence, BarryS:).

 

 


Debbt
(Researching Harrison, Manley, Cowgill and Breward) Go to Top of Page
Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 08:15
And some other bits for those who might be interested

:The London Gazette, (June 3rd, 1870)

MATTHEW MANLEY, Deceased.
Pursuant to the Act of Parliament made and passed in the 22nd and 23rd years of the reign of Her present Majesty, queen Victoria, cap. 35 intituled "An Act to further amend the Law of Property, and to relieve Trustees"
Notice is hereby given, that all creidtors and other persons having any debts, claims , or demands against the estate of Matthew Manley, late of Marsden in the county of Lancaster, Innkeeper deceased (who died on the 16th day of March, 1870) int state, and to whose personal estate and effects letters of administration were granted on the 22nd day of April, 1870 by Her Majesty's Court of Probate, in the District Registry at Lancaster to Eleazer Manley, of Nelson in Marsden aforesaid, Ironmonger, (one of the children of the said Matthew Manley, deceased) are hereby required to send particulars in writing, with dates of their respective debts, claims, and demands against the said Matthew Manley deceased to us the undersigned, Messrs. Hall and Baldwin, at our offices, situation in Clitheroe in the said county, on or before Monday, the 11th day of July next, after which day the said Eleazer Manley will proceed to distribute the whole of the assets of the said intestate among the persons entitled thereto, having regard only to the debts, claims and demands of which he, the said said administrator will not be answerable or liable for the assets, or any part thereof, to any person or persons of whose debt, claim or demand particulars and notice shall not have been received as aforesaid - Dated this 26th day of May, 1870. HALL and BALDWIN, Solicitors to the said Administrator.


From the National Archives:


1. Contents:
Will of Thomas Manley of Lower Bradley in Great Marsden, farmer in which by authority given in the will of Matthew Pollard decd. of Lower Bradley, yeoman dated 17 Aug. 1819, he limits the property described in MBNE 59/54 above to the use of Joseph and Benjamin Smith of Colne and Glasgow, worsted manufacturers, giving them full title, the said property being part of Pollard's Tenement devised in the said will of Matthew Pollard to T.M. for life with a power of appointment by his will; T.M.'s bequest subject to a consideration of £403, to be paid within 3 months of his death to his executors Eleazor Manley of Burnley, grocer and Matthew Manley, jun., of Burnley, grocer, with interest at 5 per cent per annum from his death

 

2. Contents:
Copy of court roll of admittance of Joseph and Benjamin Smith of Colne and Glasgow, merchants and worsted manufacturers to premises as in MBNE 59/54 above, surrendered by Matthew Manley of Colne, grocer, and Thomas Manley of Lower Bradley in Great Marsden, yeoman
Fine: 4d.


3. Contents:
(1) Matthew Manley sen. of Colne, grocer and Eleazer Manley of Burnley, grocer
(2) Eleazer Manley, as above and Matthew Manley jun., of Burnley, grocer
(3) Joseph and Benjamin Smith of Lower Bradley in Great Marsden, merchants and worsted manufacturers
Conveyance whereby (2), executors and beneficiaries under the will of Thomas Manley late of Lower Bradley yeoman, deceased and (1) release to (3) the full title to the plot of land at Walverden Mill Bridge described in MBNE 59/54 above pursuant to the will of T.M., recited (MBNE 59/55 above); also reciting earlier deeds, 13 Jun. 1850 and 18 Oct. 1850 (MBNE 59/54 and MBNE 59/57 above)
Consideration: £403 plus interest by (3) to (2)

 

It looks as if Thomas only had a life interest in the farm??? 

 

Edited by - Debbt on 09/10/2011 08:16:21


Debbt
(Researching Harrison, Manley, Cowgill and Breward) Go to Top of Page
BarryS
New Member


15 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 11:44
Thanks to Debbt for all these posts.

As far as I can see Debbt is right. Matthew Pollard's will (I have a copy) seems to suggest that for both Thomas and Matthew Manley their's was just a life interest in the Estate. They owned it but could not sell. My Great Aunt further interpreted the will to suggest the same applied to their children. However my reading of the will seems to suggest they could sell and indeed they did.

As a consequece neither Matthew nor Thomas left a will. There was no need Matthew Pollard had made provision for their children in his will. The will pertaining to Thomas Manley relates only to his dealings with the Smith brother's who were renting land from him. As far as I can see the deal was they bought it off his children after his death. The Smith's had built a mill and possibly workers cottages on land known as the 'Holme'. 

The Eleazer Manley grocer of Burnley referred to in the National Archive documents is Thomas and Matthew's brother not Matthews son.

Thomas Manley's will is dated 1850. I should have noted this as I have got a copy of the will. So Debbt's date of 1851 for Thomas Manley's death now looks correct. The 1849 date  comes from my Great Aunt's book. 

Thanks also to Debbt for confirming the position of Eleazer Manley's partnership with Joseph Hartley in this entry from the London Gazette. In both Nelson and Colne Libraries there is a book detailing information about some of the properties in Nelson and Colne. An entry for 1904 concerning 2 Scotland Road clearly shows the property was owned by a Mr Hartley who says he bought it for £2000 twenty years previously. A document held by the Lancashire  Record Office shows a Joseph Hartley of 2 Scotland Road being consulted about the planned widening of Market Street at the time the Old Nelson Inn was demolished. I think this was about1893/4. Other documents however show that Joseph Hartley continued to trade as 'Manley and Hartley' adding to the confusion.

Athough I had not noticed these entry's in the London Gazette I had noticed one for 1876 showing the ending of a Partnership with John Edward Lambert (Eleazer's brother in Law) for their Ironmongery Business at 2 Scotland Road. I do not know at what point Joseph Hartley became a partner or what his share in the business was. Some time after 1871 Eleazer also took over Lawrence Fryer's Tin Plate Business relocating it and employing both Fryer and his son Tom as an apprentice which is why on the 1881 census Eleazer styles himself an 'Ironmonger and Tin Plater'. 

Yes I have thought about doing an update to my Great Aunt's book but I do not feel I have got all the answers yet to the ones she was unable to answer. These relate to the origins of John Hillary the other great player in the book, the controversy over the Pollard inheritance as it relates to Matthew Manley's children, and the origins of the Manley Family itself though I have made progress on all three.

BarryS





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Sunray10
Regular Member


557 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 15:04
Here is a photo of my ancestor Eleazer Manley 1841-1912 with his family. Born in Brierfield son of Matthew and Alice Manley. He set up an ironmongers business in Nelson about 1870 (where Altham's Travel is now situated). He had four children (one of whom died soon after birth). Eleazer died at Southport died in 1912 aged 71.
Eleazer Manley


R.Spencer. Go to Top of Page
BarryS
New Member


15 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 16:38
Thanks to Sunray10 for posting the photo of Eleazer Manley and Family. The photo was taken around 1879/80. Eleazer is shown with his wife Ann. Ann  was also his cousin the daughter of his Uncle Thomas Manley.
 
The children are Edward born 1870, Catherine born 1873 and Bertie the baby in the photo born 1878. Eleazer and Ann had a fourth child Percy who did not survive born 1876. Go to Top of Page
Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 02:25
Thanks everyone - I hope I'm not being too enthusiastic.

All very fascinating and a great photo Sunray10. 

 

BarryS, who is John Hillary?   

 


Debbt
(Researching Harrison, Manley, Cowgill and Breward) Go to Top of Page
Debbt
New Member


24 Posts
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 02:56
Skip that last question,  I did a search of this site and others and now know where he fits in.


Debbt
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