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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted -  21/12/2007  :  11:56
I have uploaded my first picture to the Barlick site I hope to be able to add it in this thread if/when it gets approval from Doc. It is a postcard from the 1940s entitled Winged Heroes and showing Hawker Hurricanes. (The picture is in the next post if you are on page 1 of the thread; if you are on another page you need to go back tp page 1 to see it.)

Please feel free to add your own stories, pictures or comments regarding everything to do with aeroplanes and their pilots, both past and present.

Edited by - Tizer on 11/11/2010 15:11:42


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wendyf
Senior Member


1439 Posts
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 13:38
There was a plane over here on Sunday not long before 12.00. It was flying low, in a north easterly direction, on a line approximately between Colne & Skipton. It looked and sounded old to me, and looking at the pics on the website, I'm wondering if it was the Dakota.


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 14:06
Two engines if it was a Dakota, Wendy, and sleek looking.


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wendyf
Senior Member


1439 Posts
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 17:51
Definately two engines Tiz. It looked dark grey from here, but then so did the Spitfire and Hurricane when they flew by the other week. It was definately something out of the ordinary, and flying in an unusual direction!


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 20:02
The only twin engined aircraft in the BBMF flight is Douglas C47 (DC3) Dakota ZA947. The same aircraft  we had at our 40's do in Barlick a couple of years ago.

It looks like the Dakota has had sorties on both coasts this weekend.

Various sorties on Saturday in Scotlad landing in Kinloss at 16.35. Sunday it flies from Kinloss to Cumnock and then lands at Blackpool at 11.30. It then drops off one of the schedules on the BBMF website but is shown on another schedule at a display in Whitby. If this was in the afternoon it would explain your sighting.

The Dakota was displaying in Whitby on Sunday and today Monday, using Teeside as it's overnight stop prior to flying back to base at Coningsby in Lincolnshire today.


Here is the Wiki list of suviving Spitfires worldwide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Supermarine_Spitfires

 

 



 

Edited by - panbiker on 23/08/2010 20:04:49


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 10:37
Image


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 10:41


You Can buy a ride in this one.


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 10:43



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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 12:41
Lovely pictures thomo and thanks for the information about two-seaters. What are the unusual markings on the wings and fuselage of the second plane?

Now here is a puzzle. We recorded then watched a TV programme about amateur cine film. One man had done his National Service on HMS Eagle in the 1950s and had taken home-movie type footage without anyone stopping him! They showed various clips from the film he had shot. Some showed planes landing on HMS Eagle and I was puzzled by a twin engine (prop) that I couldn't identify. I ran the recording again, paused it and captured a couple of shots. I think they are of the same plane although the first has no tanks under the wings and second has them. The film was poor quality and photographing on TV doesn't help either but I'm fairly sure it was prop-driven and has a strange long nose (radar?).

Anyone got ideas of what the plane might be?

Landing on HMS Eagle 1950s

Landing on HMS Eagle 1950s (2)


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thomo
Barlick Born Old Salt


2021 Posts
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 17:54
Hi Tizer, the roundels are Netherlands, the above aircraft is not one of Eagles own, therefore possibly a visitor, looks a bit like a Westland Whirlwind.


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 18:13
I saw the program as well Tiz and also wondered about the aircraft we will ave to do a bit of research on this one.

With regards to the twin seater Spitfire, see these two links:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1165333/The-battle-Bonhams-How-pick-spitfire-1-5m.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/spitfire-sale-this-munificent-man-and-his-flying-machine-1671647.html

 

 

 

Edited by - panbiker on 24/08/2010 18:26:29


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 19:03
HMS Eagle was the sister ship Of HMS Ark Royal. I have searched for the aircraft in Tiz's query above. I have looked at the Wiki entry for the carrier which lists all the aircraft types flown. Quite a few single engine prop planes but no twins. The carrier converted to jets mid fifties onwards. I have checked all the naval flights associated with this carrier without luck.

At first look it could be a De-Haviland Mosquito but closer inspection shows incorrect wing incidence and the fuselage looks a lot narrower than the Mossie. Propably a recon type with stretched front fuselage for radar.

HMS Eagle was involved in operation Mainbrace which was the first large scale naval excercise after WWII by the newly formed Allied Command Atlantic which was part of the NATO alliance. This excercise involved U.S. and other allied nations. It could be that the aircraft does not actually belong to the carrier but may be a visitor during excercise. It's a pity that we can't see any markings which could give further clues.

Anyone else with any ideas?

Just seen your post Peter, not a Westland Whirlwind, tailplane is wrong. I definately think it was a visitor.

Edited by - panbiker on 24/08/2010 19:15:37


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 25/08/2010 : 09:46
Ian, thanks for the information on the Spitfire and the `unkown'. I was impressed by the quality of the photo that Thomo had posted of the Spitfire in Dutch markings but when I looked at the Bonhams web page the last two, crisp, close-up photos of the Spitfire made my eyes water - if only I could take photos like that! Ah well, keep learning, keep trying I guess.

Like Peter, I guessed at Westland Whirlwind from the shape but then found that they were out of use by the 1950s. Your suggestion of the aircraft being a visitor and possibly from another NATO member sent me searching for US aircraft. I chanced upon this web page which has photos of many carrier based aircraft...

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/navy-aircraft.asp

...and it led me to the DH103 Sea Hornet, which of course is a developement from the Mosquito (which is why you thought of that plane first). More specifically it must be the NF21, a night fighter with a radome in the nose. The Hornet is smaller than the Mosquito and normally had only a pilot but the NF21 had a second cockpit level with the wing's trailing edge for another crew member.

See the two photos below - a slight upset in the second picture, spot the wheels!

De Havilland D.H.103 Sea Hornet NF21

 

De Havilland D.H.103 Sea Hornet NF21 - crash

Edited by - Tizer on 25/08/2010 09:59:44


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 25/08/2010 : 18:37
Oops! I think I remember the RAF guy who shot the film footage on HMS Eagle saying that undercarriage collapse was an occupational hazard and much more regular than you would think. I suppose if the Sea Hornet was the same construction as the Mosquito it would need a very accurate pilot to get it down on the deck of a moving ship in one piece.

I also suppose that as technology has progressed with more modern metal alloys and composites and the advancement of deck arrestor hardware, things will have improved somewhat in the last 50 years.

If you watch a modern aircraft carrier landing a fast jet, they seem to stop on the preverbial dime. I suppose they will have quite a high stall speed so they will have to come in fast. The decelleration when they pick up the arrestors will probably excercise the crews G suits to the max. Not much margin for error.


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Tizer
VIP Member


5150 Posts
Posted - 25/08/2010 : 19:41
I read that the Hornet was smaller than the Mosquito but had the same wood construction - Nature's carbon fibre! Pilots loved it and described it as being like a Grand Prix version. Curiously it is described as having `handed' engines which I hadn't come across before - both Merlins but not exactly the same on left and right and with different series numbers. Why would they have different engines on the two sides?

Now here is an interesting aeroplane forum thread. Lots of pictures of unusual aircraft. Part way down the thread they start trying to name planes with contra rotating propellers. If you're into that sort of thing see what you can come up with before looking in the thread!

Edited by - Tizer on 25/08/2010 19:45:51


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panbiker
Senior Member


2301 Posts
Posted - 25/08/2010 : 20:55
The two sites you posted are fascinating Tiz. I came across this one as a link from a warbird site I was trolling. Talk about attention to detail, check out the cockpit and instrumentation, not to mention the 19,000 rivets!

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/spitfiremkidg_1.htm

Dedication or what! footnote says he is working on a P51D Mustang.

 

Edited by - panbiker on 25/08/2010 21:07:20


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